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Topic: How can I connect two note values at the same time? (Read 7933 times) previous topic - next topic

How can I connect two note values at the same time?

In my latest piano composition there is one section where I want to hold a dotted half note for the duration of one 6/8 measure while playing 6 eighth notes at the same time. The dotted half note is to be held by the pedal. How might I notate this?

In the .nwc I have posted, I want the red hilighted notes to be dotted half notes. I also need help beaming across two staffs.

Thanks for any help you can provide!

Re: How can I connect two note values at the same time?

Reply #1 –
I didn't see an attachment so I don't know how you've notated it.

I'm not a pianist, but are you saying all six eighth notes are the same pitch, so you're getting a rhythmic effect?  Or are you going to play six different eighth notes, which will run into each other if you're holding the sustain pedal down.  Could be some interesting harmony in the latter case, I imagine.

Anyway, I think you can use Inert/Sustain pedal to get the marking:

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:Bb
|TimeSig|Signature:6/8
|SustainPedal|Pos:-13
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First|Dur2:Half,Dotted|Pos2:-3
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|SustainPedal|Status:Released|Pos:-11|Justify:Right
|Bar
|SustainPedal|Pos:-13
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First|Dur2:Half,Dotted|Pos2:-3
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|SustainPedal|Status:Released|Pos:-11|Justify:Right
|Bar
|SustainPedal|Pos:-13
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:-1,9|Opts:Stem=Up|Dur2:4th|Pos2:-11
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up
|SustainPedal|Status:Released|Pos:-11|Justify:Right
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:-3,1
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

 

Re: How can I connect two note values at the same time?

Reply #2 –
Oops! Here is the attachment! (Please respond ASAP!)

Re: How can I connect two note values at the same time?

Reply #3 –
G'day smelin5,
please find attached a start...

I've chorded the dotted minims (half notes) you wanted with quaver (eighth note) rests.  This gives the correct playback and appearance EXCEPT for spacing to the next notes.

To fix the spacing I gave the following quavers 1 * "extra accidental space".  This not only moves the notes along a little, but makes the rests on the other staff still line up correctly.

If you don't want the chorded quaver rests to be visible there is a "Global_Mod" command that will fix it (Thanks RickG).  To use it you need to have the NWC2 User Tool Starter Kit" installed.  The command is:
php\php.exe Scripts\adp_GlobalMod.php RestChord Opts.VertOffset=<PROMPT:=#[-2047,2048]>
If this has wrapped on your screen there are spaces between ".php" and "RestChord" and "Opts".

Otherwise, you can copy the restchord to notepad (normal copy and paste), edit the VertOffset to +/- 2000 and copy and paste back in.

This will effectively "move" the rest off the page.

I haven't done the cross staff beam.  I'm out of time and it can take a deal of fiddling - it isn't always that sucessful either.  In any case, I'm not sure you need it.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: How can I connect two note values at the same time?

Reply #4 –
Thanks for the tip. Would it be musically acceptable if I just made the first "dotted half note" of each bar an eighth note that connects to the other eighth notes? Technically the sound will be the same regardless because of the pedal, but is such notation wrong?

Re: How can I connect two note values at the same time?

Reply #5 –
I would do this:

Edit: Or if really pressed for space, #2 is about 10% narrower, but considerably more complex :)
Registered user since 1996

Re: How can I connect two note values at the same time?

Reply #6 –
Ahhh, nice one Rick.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: How can I connect two note values at the same time?

Reply #7 –
Rick, your first picture is exactly what I'm asking about how to do :\ I can't seem to figure out how to beam two eighth notes with a dotted half note in between them. I've not been able to solve this problem with invisible notes or anything. I need to print out this song tonight, so if you could be respond ASAP. Thanks!

Re: How can I connect two note values at the same time?

Reply #8 –
Quote from: smelin5 –
I need to print out this song tonight
Have you decided on the staff size and left/right margins? All your attachments are from the default Piano Template.
Registered user since 1996

Re: How can I connect two note values at the same time?

Reply #9 –
It's ok. I finished the piece and printed it out already. Thanks for all of your help!

Re: How can I connect two note values at the same time?

Reply #10 –
G'day smelin5
Quote from: smelin5 –
<snip>
I can't seem to figure out how to beam two eighth notes with a dotted half note in between them. I've not been able to solve this problem with invisible notes or anything.
<snip>

The example Rick shows is a standard chord construct.  Enter the quaver with stem up (<Shift-Up>), then <Shift-Dn>, <Ctrl-Enter> the dotted minims so they will be stem down...
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: How can I connect two note values at the same time?

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
The example Rick shows is a standard chord construct.
A "standard chord construct" will produce 2 note on's for the upper 'E' and a note off an 8th note later. That is wrong. How wrong it will sound depends on the synth, instrument, and pedal status. Visually, the augmentation dot is below the leger line.

I saw 4 voices, so I used 4 staves. Sounds right. Augmentation dot is above the leger line, which looks better to me. On the bottom staff,  I used used this:
Quote
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up,XNoteSpace=1,VertOffset=2000|Dur2:Half,Dotted|Pos2:-6,1
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Down,VertOffset=2000
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Down,VertOffset=2000
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
It fixes the spacing between the Chord and the next note, and immunizes it from 'Audit note Stems'.

When some asks: "How do I make this look right?" and attaches a file with a 26pt Staff Size, it seems obvious to me that he hasn't tried very hard.
Registered user since 1996

Re: How can I connect two note values at the same time?

Reply #12 –
G'day Rick,
Quote from: Rick G. –
A "standard chord construct" will produce 2 note on's for the upper 'E' and a note off an 8th note later. That is wrong. How wrong it will sound depends on the synth, instrument, and pedal status. Visually, the augmentation dot is below the leger line.

Yup, I stand corrected.  I forgot about the note off - I don't have that problem with my synth, and I didn't notice the augmentation dot anomaly...  No excuse for that one.

Quote
I saw 4 voices, so I used 4 staves. Sounds right. Augmentation dot is above the leger line, which looks better to me. On the bottom staff,  I used used this:It fixes the spacing between the Chord and the next note, and immunizes it from 'Audit note Stems'.

Reasonable approach.

Quote
When some asks: "How do I make this look right?" and attaches a file with a 26pt Staff Size, it seems obvious to me that he hasn't tried very hard.

Yeah, but I figured that:
a) Maybe a quick copy and paste to a quick and dirty file for an example - why spend time on setting sizes?
b) Working to a deadline - haven't got time to do as much research and reading as should normally be done.
c) The project sounds like it's more about the music than the notation, but that the notation is important because someone must play it to produce the music...  (Hmm, sounds to me like a bit of circular logic in there somewhere...)

My guess is some kind of music project for school or perhaps a tertiary ed. "thingy".  The music itself sounds like it could be quite ambitious and smelin5 did say he wrote it.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: How can I connect two note values at the same time?

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
I forgot about the note off
The simultaneous, same pitch note on's give me problems. This is never right on the piano, but it seldoms sounds bad. Other instruments, like violins and flutes can sound very bad, even though the MIDI might be technically correct. Go figure.

Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
why spend time on setting sizes?
Possibly because the folks you are trying to get to help you will have to do it. A plurality, if not a majority of music is printed in a size that is closest to NWC's 18pt. Anything outside of the 14-20pt creates the impresssion that the poster hasn't thought much about printout. The overall width is often critical to many solutions, as 1 bar on a line is generally unacceptable. If someone says that the margins are set to the smallest acceptable and A4 paper is a must, I am much more likely to spend time to get the format right.
Registered user since 1996

Re: How can I connect two note values at the same time?

Reply #14 –
G'day Rick,

Quote from: Rick G. –
Possibly because the folks you are trying to get to help you will have to do it.

Perhaps...  I generally interpret questions of this nature as more of a "how do I..." in which case the technique should be enough.  In these cases margins, staff sizes etc. are irrelevant IMHO.  Of course, this is not always true...  ;)
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: How can I connect two note values at the same time?

Reply #15 –
Mostly, this is my rant about the default Piano Template which appears to have been designed by Stevie Wonder ;)
Registered user since 1996