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Topic: Spacing bug: Beta 2.16 (Read 9308 times) previous topic - next topic

Spacing bug: Beta 2.16

Layer:
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
with:
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:VertOffset=2000|Visibility:Never
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up,VertOffset=2000|Dur2:Whole|Pos2:b4z|Color:1
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:VertOffset=2000|Visibility:Never
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:VertOffset=2000|Visibility:Never
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up,VertOffset=2000|Dur2:Whole|Pos2:b4z
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:VertOffset=2000|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Visibility:Never
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:VertOffset=2000|Visibility:Never
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up,VertOffset=2000|Dur2:Whole|Pos2:b4z
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:VertOffset=2000|Visibility:Never
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:VertOffset=2000|Visibility:Never
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up,VertOffset=2000|Dur2:Whole|Pos2:b4z
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:VertOffset=2000|Visibility:Never
|Bar
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:VertOffset=2000|Visibility:Never
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up,VertOffset=2000|Dur2:Whole|Pos2:b4z|Color:1
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:VertOffset=2000|Visibility:Never
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:VertOffset=2000|Visibility:Never
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up,VertOffset=2000|Dur2:Whole|Pos2:b4z
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:VertOffset=2000|Visibility:Never
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Notice how the start of a line or a visible bar line distorts the spacing around the red flats.
The distortion is less in Print Preview, but still not acceptable.
Viewer Beta 2.11 does not have this problem. Something has changed, and not for the better.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Spacing bug: Beta 2.16

Reply #1 –
Another spacing problem:
staff 1:
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|TimeSig|Signature:6/8
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
staff 2:
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|TimeSig|Signature:6/8
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Slur=Upward
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Slur=Upward
|Rest|Dur:16th|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1
|Rest|Dur:16th|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:32nd|Pos:-1|Opts:Slur=Upward
|Rest|Dur:16th,Dotted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:32nd|Pos:-1
|Rest|Dur:16th,Dotted|Visibility:Never
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
The first 2 upflags don't distort the spacing of the beamed 16th notes.
But the combination of an upflag and an invisible rest does. IMO, it should not.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Spacing bug: Beta 2.16

Reply #2 –
concur
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Spacing bug: Beta 2.16

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
concur
Thanks. IMO, objects set to Visibility:Never should obey a few rules:
  • On the printed page or in Print Preview:
    • take up no space
    • not cause an implicit system break
  • In the Editor:
    • take only enough space to select with a mouse
    • align with visible counterpart on other staves (Clef, Key, TimeSig)
Registered user since 1996

Re: Spacing bug: Beta 2.16

Reply #4 –
This slur looks a bit strange.
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Rest|Dur:8th,Slur|Opts:Stem=Down|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Registered user since 1996

Re: Spacing bug: Beta 2.16

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
This slur looks a bit strange.

It does rather have high hopes doesn't it...
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Spacing bug: Beta 2.16

Reply #6 –
Quote
This slur looks a bit strange

It looked ok to me.  What am I missing?

By the way, moving the hidden rest down lengthens the stems on the beamed notes.  That's a neat discovery.

Re: Spacing bug: Beta 2.16

Reply #7 –
Quote from: David Palmquist –
It looked ok to me.  What am I missing?
The Print Preview Icon. By default, it is the 7th one on the File ToolBar.   :)

Quote from: David Palmquist –
... moving the hidden rest down lengthens the stems on the beamed notes.
It does in the Editor, but again, you are in for a surpise if you invoke Print Preview.

Strangely, in this:
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Rest|Dur:8th,Slur|Opts:Stem=Down,VertOffset=-2|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
the slur looks fine in Print Preview, but the stem lengths change.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Spacing bug: Beta 2.16

Reply #8 –
'nother interesting discovery...

Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Rest|Dur:8th,Slur|Opts:Stem=Down|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

looks fine.  It appears the vertical relationship of the rest to the notes being slurred is the critical factor.  It doesn't matter if the notes are beamed or not.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Spacing bug: Beta 2.16

Reply #9 –
Quote
The Print Preview Icon. By default, it is the 7th one on the File ToolBar.   :)

Oooh.  Low blow!  (grin).  Yes, I see what you mean.  I have it in 4th place.  This week.  I sometimes change my mind.

Re: Spacing bug: Beta 2.16

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
It appears the vertical relationship of the rest to the notes being slurred is the critical factor.  It doesn't matter if the notes are beamed or not.
This seems to be the Zen of it.
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:Slur
|Rest|Dur:Slur|Visibility:Never
|Note
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Registered user since 1996

Re: Spacing bug: Beta 2.16

Reply #11 –
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:0
|Rest|Dur:4th,Slur|Opts:Slur=Downward|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:1^|Opts:Stem=Up|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:1
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Interesting effect, but then try with the grace note stem down!

Re: Spacing bug: Beta 2.16

Reply #12 –
This one is strictly an Editor issue:
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Text|Text:"x"|Font:StaffItalic|Pos:8
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
The text causes the note to move closer to the Clef, the opposite of what one would expect.
Registered user since 1996
 

Re: Spacing bug: Beta 2.16

Reply #13 –
I think this may have been mentioned but it's late at night and I'm too tired to hunt for it. 

In the editor, an invisible whole bar rest is squeezed between bar lines before and after it.

This seems to be new (I haven't seen it before) and it's undesirable.  We need to be able to add things in between the bar line and the hidden rest.

Re: Spacing bug: Beta 2.16

Reply #14 –
Quote from: David Palmquist –
In the editor, an invisible whole bar rest is squeezed between bar lines before and after it.
I think I see. In the Clip below, the Rest is too close to the barline in measures: 10 - 12, 14 - 17.
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Rest|Dur:4th|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:SectionOpen|Visibility:Never
|Rest|Dur:4th|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatOpen|Visibility:Never
|Rest|Dur:4th|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatOpen|Visibility:Never
|Rest|Dur:4th|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Visibility:Never
|Rest|Dur:4th|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:Double|Visibility:Never
|Rest|Dur:4th|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatClose|Repeat:2|Visibility:Never
|Rest|Dur:4th|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatClose|Visibility:Never
|Rest|Dur:4th|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:SectionClose|Visibility:Never
|Rest|Dur:4th|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:SectionOpen
|Rest|Dur:4th|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatOpen
|Rest|Dur:4th|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatOpen
|Rest|Dur:4th|Visibility:Never
|Bar
|Rest|Dur:4th|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:Double
|Rest|Dur:4th|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatClose|Repeat:2
|Rest|Dur:4th|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatClose
|Rest|Dur:4th|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:SectionClose
|Rest|Dur:4th|Visibility:Never
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
I can hit the insertion point with a mouse after some practice, but it is not intuitive.
More of an annoyance than a bug, IMO
Registered user since 1996

Re: Spacing bug: Beta 2.16

Reply #16 –
Quote from: kahman –
And Rick, you initially praised the tight spacing of invisible objects.
Still do. But I acknowledge a limit here and here. (in the very thread you cite.)

In my example above, not only are the limits exceeded, but the space between 2 invisible objects is greater than the space between a visible and invisible object of the same types. This is counterintuitive.

And the behaviour I noted here has not changed
Registered user since 1996

Re: Spacing bug: Beta 2.16

Reply #17 –
Quote
More of an annoyance than a bug, IMO

Yes.  When notating to a deadline (I had to get something ready for today's rehearsal), I don't want to be distracted by difficulties that didn't exist before.

I also noticed this morning the program isn't doing things as quickly as it used to. However, this may be because I'm working on a file imported from xml and I find invisible artifacts in various bars.