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Topic: Help needed! (Read 13941 times) previous topic - next topic

Help needed!

Hello, i just tested out this program and i thought i'd help me learn piano since i can put out all notes and see how "it should sound", or however i should explain it to you. Now, after ive done this, im trying to learn the song, tis just, id help so much if i could see somewhere on my screen whereever i mark what keynote im standing on, like. If i press on the "line" which is a C, i would see in my lower corner that im standing at the C line. Since i really read the sheet like a book, i need to look up each word. As you might have noticed im not very familiar with composition expressions or such, i am a newbie and im trying to learn =). Anyway, is there any possibily there is already a function like this, or is it possible to script one? And if it is, anyone know how? And last, i hope you see what im trying to say! Thanks

// Erich

Re: Help needed!

Reply #1 –
There's no indicator for the names of the notes in either version of NWC, so far as I recall.  You can set version 2 to play the note when you enter it, but that only helps if you know what the note should sound like.

It isn't too hard to memorize the names of the notes on a staff, though.  Just use the clef as a starting point, and use mnemonics to jog your memory.

The bass clef is called the F clef.  The two dots sit just above and below the fourth line, which is F.

The treble clef is the G clef.  The middle loop starts just below the second line and crosses it three times as you follow it up.  The second line is G.

Starting from the bottom of the treble clef, the lines going up are E, G, B, D, F.   Every Good Boy Deserves Fun.  The spaces are F, A, C, E.  That spells face.

The lines on the bass clef are G B D F A   Good Boys Deserve Fun Again.  The spaces are A C E G  All Cows Eat Grass.

I play instruments that are all notated in the treble clef, but when I had to write music in the bass clef, learning note names was very easy and fast when I repeated the names in my head as I entered them.

I know this isn't what you were requesting, but I hope you'll find it useful.

Re: Help needed!

Reply #2 –
Hi Erich, There are many places you can get information on musical terms but a very simple one page is "Musical Geography". If you go to
 www.newdaysingers.com you can click on the pdf and print it or save it.

Re: Help needed!

Reply #3 –
G'day llucyy,
what a neat little page... and it uses the real names for note durations <g,d&r>
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Help needed!

Reply #4 –
Did it come with the advent of the internet, or are our schools really that bad? I have heard the excuse that we don't bother with capitalization and punctuation so that we can write faster. Hogwash! It may have been faster for Erich to write his question but for the one trying to decipher the code, it's more trouble than it's worth. Your punctuation is the least of your problems.  I think Erich that you would do well to get a grip on the english language before trying to tackle musical notation. If you are only willing to give it the same effort you have shown with the written language, you will never become a musician worth bothering with. I seriously couldn't even figure out what you were trying to say. Learning the position of the notes on the staff is not something you should be trying to avoid any more than sentence structure, grammar and punctuation. No musician is going to try to interpret your musical thoughts unless you are willing to write them in the standard fashion which is precicely what this tool NWC is for, just as the word processor is the tool used to convey your thoughts, ideas and queries. Your question should "read like a book", not like the Rosetta Stone. I know that this sounds harsh, but someone's got to say it! A modicum of effort on your part if you don't mind.

Re: Help needed!

Reply #5 –
Hi, Fitzclan -

I had the same impression; however, upon reading it again, I suspect English isn't his first language.  If it is, then I'm in full agreement with you.  If not, then I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.  The phrase "standing on the keynote" struck me as a translation, rather than an idiom.
John
 

Re: Help needed!

Reply #6 –
Quote from: fitzclan –
Did it come with the advent of the internet, or are our schools really that bad? I have heard the excuse that we don't bother with capitalization and punctuation so that we can write faster. Hogwash! It may have been faster for Erich to write his question but for the one trying to decipher the code, it's more trouble than it's worth. Your punctuation is the least of your problems.  I think Erich that you would do well to get a grip on the english language before trying to tackle musical notation. If you are only willing to give it the same effort you have shown with the written language, you will never become a musician worth bothering with. I seriously couldn't even figure out what you were trying to say. Learning the position of the notes on the staff is not something you should be trying to avoid any more than sentence structure, grammar and punctuation. No musician is going to try to interpret your musical thoughts unless you are willing to write them in the standard fashion which is precicely what this tool NWC is for, just as the word processor is the tool used to convey your thoughts, ideas and queries. Your question should "read like a book", not like the Rosetta Stone. I know that this sounds harsh, but someone's got to say it! A modicum of effort on your part if you don't mind.

I admire your sticking to the English rules, but

1) I think you should have put it more politely
2) I think John Ford is right
3) Exaggeration is not needed in this case.
("I seriously couldn't even figure out what you were trying to say"? I could understand him as well as I could understand you!)
$) Insulting him does not help anything. You were not being "harsh". You were being plain insulting.
Supported by The Brotherhood of Pandas

Re: Help needed!

Reply #7 –
Since i really read the sheet like a book, i need to look up each word.
Sorry Archive. No clue! If you know what that sentence conveys, good for you. I don't! No exaggeration.
By the way, there is software out there that teaches one how to read music. A quick stop at your local library is probably all that is necessary to get started however, it is my contention as a self-taught musician that it is far better to spring for lessons than to do-it-yourself if you want to get serious about the craft. My own children, after taking lessons for only a short while, are quickly gaining ground and will far surpass my musical knowledge and skill in jig-time.
There are a lot of people who use this forum who are a wealth of knowledge and are willing to take the time to share it with others who need help. I have been on the receiving end of their kindness many times and have learned a lot from other peoples inquires. I just think that if you are asking for help, you could take a monemt to gather your thoughts and be a little more concise. As you can see, I am not as articulate as some, and I don't expect perfection. Just a little more effort.

Re: Help needed!

Reply #8 –
It is sometimes hard to describe what you're struggling with, particularly when you're in unfamiliar territory.  Typos occur often in blogs and forums - partly that's because typewriters had better keyboards, and partly because people didn't used to type without taking a typing course.  On-screen proof-reading sucks - you'll seldom catch all the errors even if you do the preview - to wit:
Quote
take a monemt to gather

Our language rules and our communication styles have changed a lot since I was young, something I see every day in the written work of my younger colleagues at the office.  We need to get used to it. The world is a different place today than it was 40 years or more ago.

This was why I took the time to try to understand the question:

Quote
i am a newbie and im trying to learn

The forum is partly social, but mostly it's about helping each other.  I'd prefer to help a new user than turn him off the program by being picky.  If I hadn't thought I understood the question, I would either not have answered or would have asked for clarification. 


 

Re: Help needed!

Reply #9 –
The topic title: Help needed! will will not be found by anyone seeking info on erich's question.
I would suggest: Wish: Note names on the Status Bar

That said, his idea has merit. My program editor has the vertical/horizontal portion of the cursor in the lower left corner of the status bar. NWC would be improved if it had bar:beat:click and a vertical position of C0 - G10 on the status bar. If nothing else, it would remind you of what the active Clef was. An indication of the current note velocity would also be useful.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Help needed!

Reply #10 –
I think the title is quite appropriate. The rest of the ramble proves it.

Re: Help needed!

Reply #11 –
David, you can "get used to it" if that suits you but "we" don't have to get used to it. There's a difference between a typo and running yourself off a cliff. You couldn't catch that many typos with a butterfly net (if indeed that is what they are, which of course they are not). If you strive for nothing, you will never be disapointed but alas,  Erich said he wanted to learn. Why then do you feel the need to stop him? You do no favors when you allow such nonsense. What you are effectively saying is 'If you want to be a dope, be a dope'. If he is looking to improve himself, let him.
And please. don't try to blame the typewriter or the keyboard. That is really alarming! The beauty of word processors is that you can fix your mistakes before printing or sending. I'm sure its inventor would be appalled at your suggestion that the keyboard is at fault. How about a little responsibility? Keyboards don't type anything, people do. If we teach our children to be sloths, we will soon have a generation of sloths to deal with.
I don't think I'm being "picky", and the question was not asked of you in particular, but was directed to me and anyone else reading the forum. "Picky" might be defined as  zeroing in on "monemt", while ignoring a string of unintelligable garble. You can lower your standards if you like but please don't speak for me or "we".

Re: Help needed!

Reply #12 –
I'm sorry that some posters to this forum don't reach your standard of intellect and education.
But I am pleased that most members exceed your standards of tolerance and compassion and are willing to help rather than criticize.

Re: Help needed!

Reply #13 –
Fitzclan, we simply aren't going to see eye to eye on this one.  Peace?

Re: Help needed!

Reply #14 –
Blessed are the peace makers.

Re: Help needed!

Reply #15 –
Mat 5:9  Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Tim, lets not forget that the same Spirit uttered these words as well:

Heb 12:6  For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives."

Heb 12:11  For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

If you don't care, you don't bother.

Peace!

Re: Help needed!

Reply #16 –
At the risk of violating scriptural admonitions against arguing with fools, I have five earned degrees — three at the doctoral level. I have been singing in church and performing musically in worship, on stage, and in other venues since I was a little boy. I am now fifty-five years old. I have wowed all kinds of audiences, I have caused whole sections of the choir to stop singing and listen in awe to the director’s chagrin. Musicianship is a whole lot more than mastering a few technical details of reading, writing, and performing music. I doubt that very many communicating in this space measure up in terms of education or musical ability. I use NWC for rehearsal purposes and to write/arrange solos and other music for church, since arthritis in my hands no longer allows me to play the piano. I mention all this, not to brag, but to point out that no one, including me, has arrived at the mountaintop yet. A whole lot more humility and charity, and a whole lot less criticism and pontificating is in order!

Phil K.

Re: Help needed!

Reply #17 –
I thought we were having a healthy discussion, not an argument. A difference of opinion doesn't require an argument but words like "fools" can kindle one up pretty quick.
"A whole lot more humility and charity, and a whole lot less criticism and pontificating is in order!"
Hmmm...

Re: Help needed!

Reply #18 –
You call this “discussion” healthy? Who deemed it so? You? I cannot think of anything more unhealthful than when someone asks for help, instead of trying to provide that help or even at least showing compassion and understanding, you berate the person for his or her use of the English language. You have a lot to learn and a lot of work to do to get that log out of your own eye!

I am a lawyer who also has a medical degree and a Ph.D. in biomedical science. I graduated at or near the top of my class for all three of my professional/doctoral degrees (J.D., M.D., Ph.D.). Professionally my whole life is about helping others who are in need of help. People who need help often are somewhat inarticulate in requesting that help. It goes with the frustration and the lack of knowledge that leads to the need for help in the first place. It is not uncommon for there to be deterioration in language skills when making a request for help either — human beings are frail, with many foibles. I certainly hope that no one would respond to you in the same vein as you did to a request for help, but maybe if that did happen you would understand how hurtful it is to have someone berate you for the manner in which you ask for help! Learn some compassion and understanding.

Among my many experiences, skills, and talents is a very good grasp of language. I was unofficially the copy editor for the school newspaper during my senior year in college (there was no actual title to the position). I am a published author in the medical literature and have been a referee editor for a major publication in the medical field. In law school I was an associate editor for the law review and the winner of the Scribes award for the best student note (article). I was awarded honors for my performance in the advanced appellate advocacy writing course, and I am currently preparing manuscripts for publication on several important issues. I am also pretty good at German and am fairly proficient at reading French as well. I bow to no one on my abilities with language. Yet it would never occur to me to chastise someone’s grammar, spelling, etc. in asking for help in a setting such as this. I understood what was being asked for. So did several others who were able to make helpful suggestions.

Learning to read music is a complex task. Most people never progress beyond the rudiments. I have sung in plenty of ensembles where 99% of the people are still laboriously trying to figure out their own notes — long, long after I am trying to figure out how to make the piece music, to sing something more than just the notes. I can look at a score and read and understand it in its entirety at a glance. Few people ever reach that level. I doubt if there are many on this site who are at that kind of proficiency either. The original request for help was so knowledge of where to begin the process of learning how to read music. Some very good suggestions were made. Most school children learning to read music, learn some form of mnemonic for the lines of the treble clef (“Every good boy does fine” comes to mind). That is a good starting place. At the same time the suggestion for more information on the status line is excellent — I would find it useful to have info on key signature, time signature, staff, measure number, and what note on the staff on the status line. My word processor provides info as to page number, line and position, insert versus typeover mode, etc. This would be similar. That is again an excellent suggestion.

You have a lot to learn about dealing with other people. You are not good enough intellectually, and I suspect musically as well, and certainly not good enough in terms of compassion and understanding to start lecturing me or anyone else on this message board about language or about your criticism of perceived errors. As I said you need to work on getting that log out of your own eye rather than the speck you perceive in someone else’s eye.

Phil K.

Re: Help needed!

Reply #19 –
Umm, guys...

I think we all need to take a step back.  There have been some uncharacteristic posts in this discussion which I think would be best overlooked...

Erich, if you ever log back in, please do not think we are unsympathetic to your needs.  While I confess that I didn't quite understand what you were asking it seems that some others have.  If this is true then I hope you have found those replies helpful.  If they were wrong perhaps you could try again...
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Help needed!

Reply #20 –
You're right Lawrie. Mea culpa!
 

Re: Help needed!

Reply #21 –
In NWC1, you can select a single note and see its properties by using Edit, Copy and then pasting into a text editor such as NotePad.exe. You will see something like:

|Note|Duration:Quarter|PitchPos:B 5@0|Visibility:Default

The PitchPos is what you want.

This trick will not work in NWC2 though.

We have locked this topic, as there is nothing more that needs to be said pertinent to the original question.