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Topic: Trouble with note tied into 1st ending but not 2nd (Read 7862 times) previous topic - next topic

Trouble with note tied into 1st ending but not 2nd

I'm using NWC 1.75b + Web Update 2.

As the subject says, I have a note in the measure (let's call it A) immediately preceding the 1st ending measure, tied into that 1st ending measure (called B). B ends with a Master Repeat Close. The next measure (C) is the 2nd ending; the note from A is not tied into C.  (If it matters, the next measure, D, begins with a Master Repeat Open.

The problem is that the tied note in A is fine the first time around, but continues to sound through the 2nd ending and on.

I have checked the Help, the various FAQs, and this forum.  The closest I came to a useful answer was here: https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=4250.0, where "NoteWorthy Online Admin" said: "When each of your endings is designated with a special ending designation, a tie into the first ending will be expected in all other endings as well. If the note in the final ending does not show a tie into it, then that ending is not designated correctly. Take a look at the REPEAT*.NWC samples in the program folder. It will show how to construct a special ending repeat sequence."

I have looked at all the samples, and as far as I can tell, I have constructed the special endings and repeats correctly. (Measures constructed similarly are working in other pieces I've dealt with.) It's just the situation where there is a tie into the 1st ending but not the 2nd which is causing problems.

I will appreciate corrections or suggestions for a workaround.

Re: Trouble with note tied into 1st ending but not 2nd

Reply #1 –
It's very interesting, and it's a wrong behaviour.

Visually:
The tie is correctly represented in NWC 1.75a, where it ends on the first note of each ending, but in NWC2.14, it does not carry into the first note of the second ending - see attachment.

Playback:
Wrong in both versions.  In 1.75a playback stops as soon as the opening tied note begins.  In other words, you hear it starting, but it has no length.  In 2.14, it plays full value the second time, but only as a half note - it doesn't carry on, and the second ending doesn't play back at all.

Solution - an ugly and incorrect one:
Place the second ending between the closing and opening master repeat signs. The behaviour is corrected.  Unfortunately, that's an unconventional and incorrect representation. The MRC and MRO should be back to back, with no gap in between. 

This is something that needs to be fixed. A solution might be to allow for a horizontal alignment adjustment for the special endings, allowing the special endings to be placed before a decorated bar line, but aligned with it.

Re: Trouble with note tied into 1st ending but not 2nd

Reply #2 –
Provided that this won't conflict with other flow instructions in the song, this will work visually and musically. But it is quite a kludge:
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:Bb
|TimeSig|Signature:Common
|Tempo|Tempo:217|Pos:10
|Instrument|Name:"Recorder"|Patch:74|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127|Pos:6
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:-3
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-2
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-2
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-2^
|Flow|Style:ToCoda|Pos:6|Justify:Right|Placement:AtNextNote|Visibility:Never
|Bar
|Ending|Endings:1
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:-2
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:-1
|Flow|Style:DCalCoda|Pos:6|Justify:Right|Placement:AtNextNote|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatClose
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatOpen
|Ending|Endings:2
|Flow|Style:Coda|Pos:6|Justify:Right|Placement:AtNextNote|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-2
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-3
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-3
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:-3
|Ending|Endings:1|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:-2^|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatClose
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
1.75b version attached. (a direct export from NWC2!)
Registered user since 1996

Re: Trouble with note tied into 1st ending but not 2nd

Reply #3 –
Nice work, Rick!

Before my earlier post, I spent a while trying to find a text-based MRO to fill the gap between the MRC and MRO, but finally gave up and posted.

In your solution, this

Quote
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:-2^|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatClose

made the second ending play twice, but when I removed it, everything was copacetic.

Re: Trouble with note tied into 1st ending but not 2nd

Reply #4 –
Thanks for the suggestions; I really need to study up to figure out what you both are saying!

I would like to post an image from my score, but am not sure how to do that.  I see the Insert Image button, but how to get the file uploaded from my machine?

Re: Trouble with note tied into 1st ending but not 2nd

Reply #5 –
Quote from: David Palmquist –
In your solution, ... the second ending play[ed] twice, but when I removed it [the MRC], everything was copacetic.
Thanks, but I'm confused. You had an MRO at the 2nd Ending. A bit useless without an MRC.
Ambiguous as to sounding the first note on the second pass, but not to play it seemed wrong.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Trouble with note tied into 1st ending but not 2nd

Reply #6 –
To upload, do this: If you were a NWC2 Tester, you could directly attach. But apparently you're not. You have to somehow get the image online, then put the URL between the image tags.
Supported by The Brotherhood of Pandas

Re: Trouble with note tied into 1st ending but not 2nd

Reply #7 –
Rick, sorry about the ambiguity - I thought the original example was a segment of the piece, so I didn't think about "closing the circle," if you will.

apb, I'm not sure how others do it, but I take a screen shot from print preview (press alt-prtscrn), paste it into an image program, crop it to just the part I want to display, save it, then upload that.  Archive explains the rest of it.

 

Re: Trouble with note tied into 1st ending but not 2nd

Reply #8 –
Hmm, I thought I had once registered as an NWC2 tester, but can't find a record of it. Doesn't matter, because I don't know enough!

Anyway, here's my illustration: <Image Link>.

(BTW, I use Aqua Deskperience as my screen shot utility. I couldn't live without it.)

Re: Trouble with note tied into 1st ending but not 2nd

Reply #9 –
G'day APB,
in this case, the problem is the rest at the start of the 2nd time bar.  Are you sure that's how it's supposed to be?

The rest should come after the note that is the tie destination...
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Trouble with note tied into 1st ending but not 2nd

Reply #10 –
It's actually bar 18 that's the problem. First time you need the tie, second time you don't. So the first time ending has to stretch over bars 18 and 19, then you need to repeat bar 18 without the tie and put the second time ending over it.

Re: Trouble with note tied into 1st ending but not 2nd

Reply #11 –
Good call Peter.   I was looking at the wrong end of it.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Trouble with note tied into 1st ending but not 2nd

Reply #12 –
Thank you all very much.  My face is terribly red, however; when I went to make the change Peter suggested, I realized that Lawrie was right:  I had left out the tie-terminating note in measure 20.  Put it in; no problem any more.

(FYI, I was creating a NoteWorthy file from an imported MIDI. In order for the NWC file to resemble the published score, I put in the repeats and different endings and got rid of the extra notes that had been in the file as first converted. More care will be taken next time!)

Thanks again.

Re: Trouble with note tied into 1st ending but not 2nd

Reply #13 –
Nothing wrong with a red face. It happens.

However, more importantly, how did you manage to embed the screenshot in your reply below?  Did you just paste the image in from your clipboard or insert an image using the image icon on this page?

Re: Trouble with note tied into 1st ending but not 2nd

Reply #14 –
Quote from: David Palmquist –
However, more importantly, how did you manage to embed the screenshot in your reply below? 
He's hosting it. Hit the Quote button on the thread to see how it is done.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Trouble with note tied into 1st ending but not 2nd

Reply #15 –
Absolutely too cool, eh, Rick?  Thanks once more.  And now I know how to add my signature portrait too!