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Topic: Beta 2.12 barline causes note misalignment (Read 6140 times) previous topic - next topic

Beta 2.12 barline causes note misalignment

Put each clip on its own staff and invoke Print Preview. The quarter notes should align, but they do not. The barline should not cause this. A hidden barline should not affect spacing at all. If you remove the SysBreak, the notes align. The problem would seem to be in the justification routine.
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:-3,1
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Bar|SysBreak:Y
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:-5,-1|Opts:Stem=Down
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Also, the closing bars should be the same. (Easy workaround for this, but it should not be needed).
These are old problems. They affect NWC 1.75b as well, except that in 1.75b, the notes misalign even with the SysBreak removed.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Beta 2.12 barline causes note misalignment

Reply #1 –
In order for alignment to work correctly, all staves must have matching bar lines. This is true in all versions of NWC. If you do not want some staves to have a visible bar line (where one exists in other staves), then hide it, but it must exist for things to work correctly.

Re: Beta 2.12 barline causes note misalignment

Reply #2 –
The alignment works quite well until you add the SysBreak. If you could beam across a barline, this would not be an issue for me.

Beams seem to have arbitrary restrictions. RestChords can't be beamed. Beam can't start or end on a rest. Can't beam across a Bar, TimeSig, Key, Clef, Flow or Ending.

I guess I'll never understand why you need a barline to have a Sysbreak. Imagine a word processor where, in order to get a new paragraph, you had to put in a punctuation mark, select its properties and check Force Paragraph Break.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Beta 2.12 barline causes note misalignment

Reply #3 –
Quote from: NoteWorthy Online –
Our goal for hidden items in NWC2: In print, the actual space occupied by a selection section that includes hidden notes should never exceed the space occupied by that same selection section with the hidden items deleted.
Assuming that the above applies to barlines as well as notes, this would seem to need some improvement:
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Bar|SysBreak:Y
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Bar|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Bar|SysBreak:Y
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Bar|SysBreak:Y
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
IMO, in Print (preview), all 3 lines should have the same justification.
This is not just an idle concern. I believe this barline justification problem to be at the root of the spacing problem between the 1st and 2nd notes in Staff:UV1 measures 13, 14, 17, 19 and 20 of the attachment.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Beta 2.12 barline causes note misalignment

Reply #4 –
I'll look into the issue with your clip. Your attached file has dramatically different bar line structure in different staves. Print results are undefined in this scenario.

With regard to your short clip, the irony here is that the topic from which you quoted is actually what most influenced the way things are handled now (with repsect to bar lines, bar line handling was actually regressed from beta 2.10 to be handled more like they are handled in older versions).

Re: Beta 2.12 barline causes note misalignment

Reply #5 –
Quote
Beam can't start or end on a rest.
Yeah, that's annoying...
 

Re: Beta 2.12 barline causes note misalignment

Reply #6 –
Quote
Beam can't start or end on a rest...
I can't recall encountering the need for this, Rick,but there's a workaround for starting on a rest, but not finishing on one (see image).  Under what circumstances would you employ this feature? 

(sorry about the stem direction in the second bar - I wanted to see if stem direction affected the carryover, and forgot to set them upward again)

Quote
Can't beam across a Bar, TimeSig....
I think beams are meant to group notes by beat or major subdivision.  Under what circumstances have you seen beaming across bar lines or time signatures?  Why? 

Quote
Can't beam across a ... .Clef
You can insert a text-based clef in a beamed group, although there's a risk of losing it among all the ink.

Quote
Can't beam across a ... Key, ...Clef, Flow or Ending
Are beams meant to cross over them? These are pretty important visual directions.  Under what circumstances?  How would you make sure they don't get lost in what would now be a very busy segment of your score?

Re: Beta 2.12 barline causes note misalignment

Reply #7 –
David: I look at things and say:"Why not?"

If you have never seen beams across barlines, look at:
https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?action=dlattach;topic=5873.0;attach=181
The source also has the beams crossing the SysBreaks. Ravel's Pavane contains several.

Piano players often must play more than one voice at a time. The rythym of some voices is not always indicated by the barlines, hence the beam across them.

Once such a pattern is established, it makes no sense to break it for a Special Ending unless the beam would obscure the Special Ending.  Although rarer, the same is true of a Flow, Key or Timesig.

Beams across clefs happen any time a clef change is needed.  IMO, it would be an error to interrupt a beam for a clef.  Of course NWC2's poor handling of clefs makes "text clefs" necessary, but I am looking forward to some improvement in this area.

Beaming a starting or ending rest has a simple workaround. Just layer:
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0z|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0,Beam=First,NoLegerLines,Muted
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0z|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0,Beam=End,NoLegerLines,Muted
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
With:
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Rest|Dur:4th|Opts:VertOffset=2048
|Rest|Dur:8th
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
but why the arbitrary restriction?

Another example: Alfred Publishing's setting of Debussy's Le petit Nègre, measures 68-69
Registered user since 1996

Re: Beta 2.12 barline causes note misalignment

Reply #8 –
I had a hunch, Rick, that you'd have good reasons.  Thanks for taking the time to illustrate the situations.  I'm convinced. 

If you want more of Reicha's scores, I found one here http://icking-music-archive.org/ByComposer/Reicha.html.  That site looks to be worth exploring a bit - seems to have lots of scores by lots of composers.

Re: Beta 2.12 barline causes note misalignment

Reply #9 –
David - I'm afraid it was me that is the Reicha freak.

I'm in the middle of converting his Te Deum to NoteWorthy . Have been posting to the newsgroup as I finished pieces.

Part of that was a discussion on cross bar beaming and Rick kindly took the score and showed me how it could be done.

Eventually the whole Te Deum willl be on the Scripto.




Rich.