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Topic: Weird Repeat (Read 3767 times) previous topic - next topic

Weird Repeat

Repeat and Special Endings sometimes don't work correctly.

Please see an example: After Final Repeat, it doesn't go neither 1st Ending
nor 2nd Ending, but strange place.  How can I resolve this?

Also, how it works for "D.C. w/ Repeat" or "D.S. w/ Repeat" like this:

:$:         (1st, 3rd & 4th Ending) w/ 4th to Coda   (2nd Ending)
||:       ||        |        |       |      |     :||       |        ||
                                                                    D.S.

Any idea?

Re: Weird Repeat

Reply #1 –
Quote from: Hiroki –
Please see an example: After Final Repeat, it doesn't go neither 1st Ending
nor 2nd Ending, but strange place.  How can I resolve this?
It is the double bar line at [ B ]. Make it a single or use this:
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Bar|Style:Double
|Ending|Endings:2
|Text|Text:"[B]"|Font:StaffBold|Pos:11
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Registered user since 1996

Re: Weird Repeat

Reply #2 –
Rick's method seems to work - within NWC.  But I don't think it's going to be easily understood by the musician reading the printed part. 

Try changing the bar line at B to a Master Repeat Open, put a Master Repeat Close before the ending bar line, then put a DS al Coda after it.  Change the ending bar line to just a section close instead of a master repeat close.

Then put Segno immediately after the Master Repeat Open at A, put To Coda immediately before the bar line before the first ending, and put a Coda at B. 

I think that'll do the trick.  Ignore the alterations of your music in this clip, I just needed it to be easier to watch the red note-chaser.     
<<< I removed the NoteWorthyComposerClip because it doesn't seem to copy properly.  Look for the NWC 1.75a attachment to my later message, above.>>>

I'm intrigued by your tempo marking.  Since you're in common time, it has to be a quarter=150, not a dotted quarter = 100.  Have you considered writing in 12/8, so you wouldn't need to use triplets?   



Re: Weird Repeat

Reply #3 –
Quote from: David Palmquist –
Rick's method seems to work - within NWC.  But I don't think it's going to be easily understood by the musician reading the printed part.
Well, gee, then make it invisible and add some text instructions.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Weird Repeat

Reply #4 –
Hi Rick,

Forget about my text clip, which I have deleted now.  I  couldn't copy it fully into NWC2 - perhaps it's too big. 

Anyway, I've tinkered with it a bit, and put it into the attached NWC 1.75a file "Wierd Repeat Solution.nwc" It can be opened in either generation of NWC.  I think it accomplishes what Hiroki wanted. 

Text won't work if the musician doesn't read the language it is written in  (I guess that's why musical direction and style expressions are conventionally in Italian - musicians trained in western music know those expressions, even if they aren't in their own tongue).  The longer the instruction, the more likely it is to be mangled and confused. 

Having said that, music notation itself is the common language of all musicians "trained" in western music.  If standard flow direction marks are used, you shouldn't need explanatory notes for the conductor or performer.  It's just hard, sometimes, to figure out what markings to use.


Re: Weird Repeat

Reply #5 –
Quote from: David Palmquist –
Text won't work if the musician doesn't read the language it is written in  (I guess that's why musical direction and style expressions are conventionally in Italian - musicians trained in western music know those expressions, even if they aren't in their own tongue). 
Ok, so do the text in Italian.

Your attachment is hardly clear. In all my years of playing popular music I can't remember playing the beginning of a Coda more than once.  The Master Repeat Close and D.S. al Coda at the same place is bewildering. Which do you do first?
Registered user since 1996

Re: Weird Repeat

Reply #6 –
Hi Rick,

You and I are both night-owls, I see.  Unless we're in different time zones.

I think most people would play the repeat first, then take the D.S.  I'm don't recall for certain whether or not I've actually seen the coda sign placed where I put it, but I think I have and I think it's correct, if unusual..  Having the piece end right there is unfortunate.  If the music carried on for another passage, placing the DS after the MRC might remove the ambiguity. 

I sometimes see odd repeats in marching band parts we occasionally play. The paper is small, the print is often recopied and faded, the music is crowded and often divisi, the staffs are crowded together.  Not a problem if you're young, with good eyesight, reading music held on a lyre.   More problematic with bifocals, reading off a music stand shared with another player.  Of course, the reed parts are sometimes a bit of a challenge even when you can read them (grin).  The parts are hard enough to read without the oddball repeats. 

Anyway, I'm not an expert in music notation or theory.  It will be interesting to see what others have to say. 

I'm hitting the sack now.  G'night.

Re: Weird Repeat

Reply #7 –
Thanks for each reply.
My apology for my poor writing.  So I rewrite example for explanation.
Ignore any notation but Repeat. (Other manners is not matter on here.)
These examples are not used at the same time.  Use [SHIFT]+{f.5] to play each
or delete one of them.

Correct sequence on Example 1:      ("[: ... :]" means loop)
Bar No = 1 - 2 - 3 - 2 - 4 - 5 - [:2 - 3 - 2 - 4 - 5:]

Actually it recognized as "From Ending sign to Double Bar".
After the last repeat, both parts are ignored so actually goes:
1 - 2 - 3 - 2 - 4 - 5 - [:2 - 5:]

Changed before #5 to Single Bar, it goes:
1 - 2 - 3 - 2 - 4 - 5 - 2(Fine!?)


Another (Example 2) doesn't work at all.  The correct sequence is:
1 - 2 - 3 - 2 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 2 - 3 - 2 - 3 - 7
(Here, Segno should be "w/ repeat")


My Summary is:
(1) [: Master Repeat :] should be balanced (Ex. #1 isn't).
(2) Further Ending should been prepared, they can be used only once,
such as 1st Ending - 2nd Ending - Coda.  No Coda, stops weird.
(3) "With Repeat and to Coda" wouldn't work correctly.
Will work for writing score only.