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Topic: Bug: Note Spacing (Beta 1 Version 2) (Read 8504 times) previous topic - next topic

Bug: Note Spacing (Beta 1 Version 2)

Look at this clip in Print Preview.  NWC2 (correctly) does not add extra space the front of the first note in each line.  But this should also true for the first note in all other measures.  This is an unsightly bug (that also exists in NWC 1.75b). Typeset music handles this correctly; NWC2 should as well.

I won't call this a bug, but IMO, NWC2 should not add extra space to invisible notes/rests either.

Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:C|Visibility:Never
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Dotted|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:1,3,6
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:0,2,5
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:Half,Dotted|Pos:-2,1,3
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Dotted|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Up|Dur2:Half|Pos2:1,3
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:7|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:0,2,5
|Bar|SysBreak:Y
|Chord|Dur:Half,Dotted|Pos:-2,1,3
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Dotted|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Bar|Style:Double
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First|Dur2:4th,Dotted|Pos2:-4,-2
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:1^|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End|Dur2:8th|Pos2:-3
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:-3,2
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Dotted|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Registered user since 1996

Re: Bug: Note Spacing (Beta 1 Version 2)

Reply #1 –
Hi Rick,

You've got a forced system break that stretches the first line in the print preview.  If you remove the forced system break and copy/paste the same few bars onto the end of your staff, so you end up with enough to wrap a few times without a forced system break, when you print preview I think you'll see the spacing is normal.

When you view it in Typeset with a forced system break, where does Typeset put the extra spacing needed to stretch out the bars?




Re: Bug: Note Spacing (Beta 1 Version 2)

Reply #2 –
Quote from: David Palmquist –
You've got a forced system break that stretches the first line in the print preview.
Gee ... no kidding? ... I'd have never guessed.
Quote
If you remove the forced system break and copy/paste the same few bars onto the end of your staff, so you end up with enough to wrap a few times without a forced system break, when you print preview I think you'll see the spacing is normal.
No, all I'll see is a workaround for the bug.  I need the SysBreak where it is.  I have workarounds for this.  I have gotten tired of using them.  I'd rather see a fix.
Quote
When you view it in Typeset with a forced system break, where does Typeset put the extra spacing needed to stretch out the bars?
Evidently you use some program called "Typeset".  By "typeset music", I meant the kind printers have been doing for the last 400 years or so.  Sorry for the confusion.





Registered user since 1996

Re: Bug: Note Spacing (Beta 1 Version 2)

Reply #3 –
Quote
Gee ... no kidding? ... I'd have never guessed.

Forgive me for assuming you possibly had overlooked something fairly basic.  That sometimes happens in this forum.

Quote
By "typeset music", I meant the kind printers have been doing for the last 400 years or so.  Sorry for the confusion.
I assumed you were comparing NWC to another program which I had never heard of.  Thank you for the clarification.  Apology accepted.  By the way, are you familiar with other notation processors that handle this spacing the way you want?  Which ones are they?

Misunderstandings aside, I think it would be difficult to program the artistry of experienced copyist/engravers.  I wonder what parameters Eric would need to use, if he chooses to try?

There'd have to be pretty comprehensive rules for the maximum distance from the bar line to the first note in the bar, taking into account stem direction, accidentals and clustered chords, with code to recognize a bar is longer than normal, to space the subsequent elements proportionally taking in the possibility of preserved width text, dotted rests, triplets, chord clusters with and without accidentals, etc. and the structure of other systems in the score.  Everything would have to be recalculated every time a forced system break is deleted or moved, and whenever a top system is hidden to allow printing of the next part in the score, since f.s.b. only works on the top system of a score.

One for the wish list, I think.  I wonder how much time it would take Eric to do this, and how it will be reflected in the eventual cost of the product?

Re: Bug: Note Spacing (Beta 1 Version 2)

Reply #4 –
David,
Quote
... rules for the maximum distance from the bar line to the first note in the bar, taking into account stem direction, accidentals and clustered chords ...
I think you are making this more complex than it is. NWC (both versions) add space to notes to get them to justify a line. It already handles the first note in the line. Programatically, it cannot be difficult to determine if a note is the first in a measure. It is even easier to know if a note is invisible.

Prior to NWC, I used a DOS/UNIX program: MusicEZ.  It wasn't (easy), but it didn't have this bug.

Perhaps the following clip shows it better.  It also shows another annoyance.  Notice how the presence of text in lines 2-4 causes less space between the KeySig and the first note.

Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:F#
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Rest|Dur:Whole
|Bar|SysBreak:Y
|Text|Text:"no gap"|Font:StaffItalic|Pos:8|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar
|Text|Text:"\|--- gap ---\|   "|Font:StaffItalic|Pos:8|Justify:Right|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|SysBreak:Y
|Text|Text:"no gap"|Font:StaffItalic|Pos:8|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:-1,0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:-1,0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|SysBreak:Y
|Text|Text:"no gap"|Font:StaffItalic|Pos:8|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:b-1,b0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:b-1,b0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|SysBreak:Y
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|SysBreak:Y
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:-1,0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:-1,0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|SysBreak:Y
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:b-1,b0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:b-1,b0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|SysBreak:Y
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Registered user since 1996

Re: Bug: Note Spacing (Beta 1 Version 2)

Reply #5 –
Just to add my penny worth, if you replace the bar lines with double bar lines (just as a see what happens) in Rick's example - not forgetting to add the 2 force system breaks, you get the same spacing for every bar. So the spacing of the notes following a bar line must depend on what type of barline is at the beginning of a measure.

I would have thought that the same spacing algorththm could be applied to single bar lines as double ones.

Rich.

Re: Bug: Note Spacing (Beta 1 Version 2)

Reply #6 –
Rich,
I can't see what you are describing. Repeat barlines are, by their nature, different, but all the other bar lines cause the same alignment.
Please elaborate.
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|SysBreak:Y
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:Double
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:Double|SysBreak:Y
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:SectionClose
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:SectionClose|SysBreak:Y
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:SectionClose
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:SectionClose|SysBreak:Y
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Registered user since 1996

Re: Bug: Note Spacing (Beta 1 Version 2)

Reply #7 –
Rick - at work at the moment  so cannot do an example - but if you take your previous example and replace every "single bar" line with a "double bar" line (|| not a repeat bar line ) then the spacing and positioning on print preview appears to be equal for all notes with reference to the bar line irrespective of where the bar is. There would appear to be now a consistent spacing algorhythm.  (Not that you want double bar  lines rather than single bar lines - but the point I'm trying to make is that if it can work for double bar lines, then that process should be able to be applied to single bar lines).



Rich.

Re: Bug: Note Spacing (Beta 1 Version 2)

Reply #8 –
Rick,

This is what I meant. These are properly spaces with respect to each other. Just a pity that other bar line types are not the same.


Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:F#
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Rest|Dur:Whole
|Bar|Style:Double|SysBreak:Y
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:Double
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:Double
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:-1,0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:Double
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:-1,0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:Double
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:b-1,b0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:Double
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:b-1,b0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:Double
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:Double
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:Double
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:-1,0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:Double
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:-1,0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:Double
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:b-1,b0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:Double
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:b-1,b0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:Double|SysBreak:Y
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Rich.

Re: Bug: Note Spacing (Beta 1 Version 2)

Reply #9 –
Rich:
If you replace all the double bar lines lines in your clip with single lines it looks fine. If you put enough stuff in a line or set the margins large enough, eventually NWC will get around to formatting it correctly.

Thanks for taking a look at it even though I do not appear to have the fluency to describe it.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Bug: Note Spacing (Beta 1 Version 2)

Reply #10 –
As of NWC2 Beta 2.05, the problems identified in:
https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=5598.msg36329#msg36329
have not been acknowledged or addressed.

The problem of too much space between the signature and the first note when the note occurs without intervening text is most troublesome.  Please help.
Registered user since 1996