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Topic: Shave and a Haircut... (Read 35138 times) previous topic - next topic

Shave and a Haircut...

The "banner" on the front page has the wrong key signature (or the wrong notes).
Oops...

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #1
Well spotted! I'd never really noticed that it was a 'real' tune, but now that you mention it... Should of course be C major for the notes as written.
Joy

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #2
In addition, the 2nd bar goes;
a half rest -- B(quarter) -- C(quarter)
But it should be
a quarter rest -- B -- C -- a quarter rest.

It may vary according to the cultuarl backgrounds.
At least this is common in our country.

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #3
But F# is correct so that would need an accidental in C major. My quibble is that the A should be flattened and slurred.

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #4
All the criticisms so far are based on certain assumptions that could easily be false.  There's nothing at all wrong with this snippet as long as you assume that
  • this isn't an attempt to render the traditional tune exactly (for example, this is a quotation from "Variations on 'Shave and a Haircut', Op. 134"), and

  • the key of the whole piece is actually G major (or E minor) but that a temporary modulation has occurred.

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #5
Yes it's possible, but it's so close to the well known tune snippet that it's obviously a wrong rendition of that tune, rather than a random set of notes. And if it were actually played it wouldn't sound right either.

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #6
It's S&aHC in Lydian mode, with a spelled-out fermata on beat one of the last bar. It just doesn't sound Lydian because the only occurrence of the 4 is essentially as an ornament.

:-P

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #7
"Shave and a haircut, two bits" is from one of Rossini's lesser-known operas, "The Barber of Barcelona." Apparently, even in Rossini's day, it was fashionable to cross over to France for a better hair-do, thus depressing the prices in nearby regions of Spain.

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #8
Inflation may soon cause the demise of this venerable tune. "Shave and a Haircut, twelve bucks" still works, but once it goes to thirteen, it's game over. Having that extra syllable completely ruins the effect.

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #9
All the previous replies to this thread assume that the tune in question is, indeed, the well known snippet in which
-the note on the third beat of the first bar would be A flat, and the third and fourth beats of the first bar, legato rather than staccato
-the first element of the second bar would be a crotchet (quarter) rest,which would be followed by the two notes written, followed, in turn, by a further crotchet rest,and with no fermata over the final C.

It is possible, however, that we are all guilty of a gross injustice, for the tune shown on the Home Page may well be an original composition!! If this, however, is indeed the claim, then I think it only fair to warn the composer, in the current climate of litigation for alleged plagiarism at the drop of a hat, that to my ear, the tune sounds dangerously similar to something someone has already done.........

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #10
The snippet on the home page is neither meant to be an original composition, nor an exact reproduction of an existing musical work. It is the manifestation of a quickly prepared banner, without adequate advance planning as to its content. We have really enjoyed reading all of the feedback that we have received on the subject. Not all agree on the exact nature of how it should be changed, but all agree that it should be changed.

We are preparing a new banner which should appear in the not too distant future. It will not include this snippet.

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #11
How about something that goes "So-so-sol MAH; Fa-fa-fa RE"?

:-P

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #12
You might compare the snippet to the closing instrumental measures of "Love and Marriage" (Frank Sinatra)

The other possibility is that it resembles a little-known opera about a Tibetan truck driver. I forget the name of the opera, or who wrote it, but its most famous aria is "Nissan Dharma."

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #13
I forget the name of the opera, or who wrote it,...

"Barber of Lhasa." Apso Facto.

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #14
Lighten up, everyone!  This is "Shave and a Haircut" we're talking about, not the Missa Solemnis!

But, assuming for a moment a that this is a serious issue, why has no one noticed that if this tune is really "Shave and a Haircut", it shouldn't have a triplet after the first note?  When you sing "S&aH", or even knock its rhythm on a door, do you use a triplet?  I certainly don't.

In fact, I've always thought that the version everyone here seems to think correct (triplet; flatted 6th; slurs) is itself a humorous embellishment of a simpler original with a straight duplet for "and a" and a natural 6th for "hair".

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #15
Lighten up, everyone!

?? I thought this whole "discussion" was pretty light-hearted, poking good-natured fun on a cute addition to NW Software's front page. Or am I missing some deep significance?

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #16
I am so sorry I ever started this.
Now everyone's fighting...

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #17
No, not everyone's fighting. Doubtless there are some 1970s era hard-rock musicians out there who are saying to themselves, "What's a shave and a haircut?"

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #18
Sorry, I misspoke.  I didn't mean literally everyone, since there was obviously some lightheartedness going on.  I meant to address only those who were so zealously finding wrong notes etc. in a trivial little musical snippet.  And those (if any) who failed to notice the tongue-in-cheekness of my previous reply to this thread.

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #19
Hi dear &nd esteemed people,
I was out of the web for more than two weeks since my PC at office (too) broke down (thanks to NT4, of course). And it took them loooong before they set me another PC up&running (I would probably have done it quicker, but "it's not [my] job" (sic).

Anyway, when I finally got one and went again (with delight, as you can expect) to the NWC site, I "heard" the score as it was displayed in the anim-nwc.gif file. What surprised me was the triplet, but that's all, because the text after it is saying "Start composing your masterpiece today!". Not "Start copying a masterpiece today!". Or did I miss something?
I don't know if the gif file changed since the beginning of this discussion though, so I may be wrong; but AFAIK, there is 12 notes in occidental music, and not so many rhythms; so it's almost impossible to write a short sequence of notes that has not been written before.
Do we have to respect the key signature of this (often unknown) predecessor? I hope not. So G major is correct there, as it may be taken as a creation from itself --even if rings a ton of bells to many people ;-)

And since it may be changed some day, I think I'll save it on my own disks for personal pleasure. Am I allowed to do that? Hope so.

What's really interesting me, is how this animgif file was made. Because it's a long time that I want to make scores that way... Or even better, in SWF format :-)

Best regards,
    Marsu

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #20
Wondered how 'Shave and a Haircut' fitted the tune. Now I know - it doesn't!

I'd never heard of the title but have known the snippet from babyhood, normally played as a sort of boom! boom! after a joke, and always with a triplet and flattened A.

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #21
> "I remember the snippet from babyhood."

Ah, yes. See my above remark about the closing measures of Sinatra's "Love and Marriage." I kid you not.

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #22
Re 'Love and Marriage', there is an apocryphal story in my family regarding my grandfather. Apparently one day he was in Woolworth's and asked the sales assistant if they had this particular record. Hoping for a sale, the young woman replied enthusiastically that they did indeed have it in stock, but was rebuffed by Grandad who replied 'Well, don't play it when I am in here!'

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #23
There's also a fermata on a staccato note...

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #24
"Demain on ra-se... gra-tis!" is the french version, for example used in Roger Rabbit movie.
You can't imagine how music is badly used (or transformed should I say) in France. To have an idea of it, open NWC, close every window in it, and type the following keys:
Ctrl+N Enter Enter Down Down Enter Minus Enter Enter Plus Up Comma Enter Down Comma Enter Space Comma Enter Up Up Up Comma Enter Home F5
and you'll hear it as I too often hear it there...

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #25
"Demain on ra-se... gra-tis!"

Hey, that's no fair. We have to pay two bits, but our French friends get it free.

But they have to wait for tomorrow, and "tomorrow never comes." :-P

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #26
I will gladly pay you tomorrow for a hamburger today.

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #27
When I wrote reply 7, I was using my imagination. But now I see from reply 24, it was true!!!

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #28
We are preparing a new banner which should appear in the not too distant future.
That was June 30.
It is now November 9.

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #29
I knew there was a reason why my life felt is if it were on hold...

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #30
Personally, I like it better with the A natural

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #31
No more shave and a haircut! Check out the new NWC main page.

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #32
it took almost a year and it was never fixed it was just replaced

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #33
...and I don't really like the replacement.  Way too much black, and it does not go with the theme of the rest of the site at all.  I find text on black a very unprofessional combination.
Sincerely,
Francis Beaumier
Green Bay, WI

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #34
...and it's so big, I have to scroll down to see New & NoteWorthy, whereas before it was right there for me to see.
I usually don't mind the "text on black," but it does not match the color scheme for the rest of the site so well.

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #35
whoa, changed again! The black on white text looks a whole lot better. I'll get used to the new arrangement; I'm not sure about it  . . .    Maybe, if you just put a small thing on the top with "Welome to NoteWorthy Software," but on the right stating the current version, then you would nicely fit everything all on one screen.
Sincerely,
Francis Beaumier
Green Bay, WI

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #36
The revision (as of this moment) looks magnificent when viewed with the 1024x768 screen of my laptop. But when switched to 800x600 view, even if the page is re-loaded, the page format isn't what I think it should be.

I expect the reason that NWC put the new introductory text at the beginning is that some search engines show a summary starting from the beginning of the page. If a web page starts with drivel, then a potential visitor may think that it's the wrong site.

Off-topic advice to NWC users who have a personal web page: If your site uses frames, DO NOT use the default "this page requires frames" in the NOFRAMES tag, since that's what a search engine will find, and it is useless. Instead, give a description of your web site content.

My own web site has an index page that uses JavaScript to re-size itself, so that it just fits the viewport of most browsers, if the screen is 800x600 or larger. The page is laid out to fit the 800x600 screen (minus browser and system toolbars), but the script increases the whitespace between major elements if the screen is larger.

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #37
Is it just this browser (IE5, Win2K, someone else's computer) or was there a very recent change in the NWC main web page? It doesn't format correctly. Was OK yesterday on my own computer (NN7, XPP).

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #38
It is not clear what you mean. The format for the main page has been changing. There are more planned changes, so don't be surprised if it does not look the same when you visit.

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #39
Evidently, what I saw was an intentional change, as it is also changed on another browser, another system.

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #40
I find two problems with the latest change.

1) the turquoise on white is very hard to read for these old eyes.

2) in Netscape things seem to be smack against the left margin and slightly cut-off on the right, with no horizontal scroll-bar showing.  This is at 600x800 with the window maximized.

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #41
I see that appearance has also changed on this forum.

It may take a while before things settle down. I spent a great deal of time revising my own web pages, using "validated" strict coding, before the "standards" browsers made it look the same, especially when viewed with different screen sizes.

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #42
Well, both of my complaints are cured this morning.  Thanks, Eric.

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #43
A very different appearance, now! Looks OK in IE6, NN7.1, at 800x600 or 1024x768.

I would suggest a border on the right-hand blue panel of the main page. The reason is that the horizontal lines in that panel will not be aligned with those in the left panel. A visual border will, I believe, make this less disconcerting. Musicians hate to be disconcerted (pun intended).

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #44
Cyril, nothing changed since yesterday. You probably had a cached copy of the images or the style sheet that caused your problem.

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #45
Now I have to scroll down to get to the Forum (and all the other) link(s)!

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #46
Could be, but it is odd that I didn't notice the width problem before -- blind as well as deaf!

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #47
If your browser used an old, cached copy of our style sheet against the new layout of our pages, then it would not be surprising to see problems with text colors, backgrounds, and margins. Usually, doing a simple page reload in the browser forces it to acquire all of the current support files, including any linked images and style sheets.

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #48
Tip for Netscape/ Mozilla (and probably also Konqueror, Galeon etc.) users: Clicking Reload only refreshes the html content. If you want to force a refresh on all images and other content, hold SHIFT whilst clicking Reload. This is sometimes necessary to see the updated version of an image that has changed, but retains the same filename.

Re: Shave and a Haircut...

Reply #49
Back at reply 37, when I was on someone else's computer, it was one thats I'd used to access NWC before. Evidently, they were not in the habit of clearing cache, even after some time.

My own computer, which clear cache on exit as a security measure, saw the pages properly.