Beats in a bar

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Beats in a bar

2025-10-05 10:42 AM

Sorry, not very descriptive - but best I could come up with.
The problem I have is I have a bar with:
[Stems Up]
Dotted Minim, quaver, quaver, quaver.
[Stems Down]
Minim, Minim, Minim

No mattwer what I try - the beat count in the bar is wrong. Adds a quaver.
Yes, there are 'ways round' this with tied notes - but is there a more elegant way?

...or have I midded something obvious?

Thanks guys...
Andrew.

Re: Beats in a bar

Reply #1 – 2025-10-05 11:23 AM

Hi Andrew,
we could probably use a little more context:
3 minims is 6 beats, but a dotted minim plus 3 quavers is 4 1/2 beats.

Do we assume it's a 6/4, or maybe a 3/2 bar?
How do the quavers line up with the minims below?

Have you learned how to make chords and rest-chords?
Or perhaps it might be best approached with layered staves.

Perhaps you could post an image of the source?

Re: Beats in a bar

Reply #2 – 2025-10-05 11:55 AM

I'm pretty sure Lawrie is spot on with this one. It sounds like you might have mixed or overlapping chords with different durations, which means you need to make one of the notes a rest chord. But it would really help to see a copy of the sheet music you are trying to enter.

Re: Beats in a bar

Reply #3 – 2025-10-05 12:15 PM

Sorry guys .... got my notes mixed up....

Its doted crotchet quaver quaver quaver
over
crotchet crotech crotchet.
<Image Link>
So 3/4 time.

Not sure if Ive added a clip correctly or not ....
Dont see where I can add a rest to sort the timing out?

Andrew.

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposer(2.751)
|Editor|ActiveStaff:2|CaretIndex:2|CaretPos:2
|SongInfo|Title:"Piano Template"|Author:"<Name>"|Lyricist:""|Copyright1:"Copyright © <Year> by <Name>"|Copyright2:"All Rights Reserved"
|PgSetup|StaffSize:18|Zoom:5|TitlePage:Y|JustifyVertically:Y|PrintSystemSepMark:N|ExtendLastSystem:N|DurationPadding:Y|PageNumbers:0|StaffLabels:None|BarNumbers:Plain|StartingBar:1|AllowLayering:N
|Font|Style:StaffItalic|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:11|Bold:Y|Italic:Y|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:StaffBold|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:9|Bold:Y|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:StaffLyric|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageTitleText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:24|Bold:Y|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:12|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageSmallText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User1|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:13|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User2|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:13|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User3|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:13|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User4|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:13|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User5|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User6|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|PgMargins|Left:2.54|Top:2.54|Right:2.54|Bottom:2.54|Mirror:N
|AddStaff|Name:"Right Hand"|Label:"Piano"|Group:"Standard"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Section Close|Visible:Y|BoundaryTop:18|BoundaryBottom:10|Lines:5|WithNextStaff:Brace,ConnectBars|Color:Default
|StaffProperties|Muted:N|Volume:127|StereoPan:64|Device:0|Channel:1
|StaffInstrument|Patch:0|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:Bb,Eb,Ab,Db,Gb,Cb|Tonic:G
|TimeSig|Signature:3/4
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:-4,-1|Opts:Stem=Down|Dur2:4th,Dotted|Pos2:2
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Up|Dur2:4th|Pos2:-2,1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up
|Bar
|AddStaff|Name:"Left Hand"|Group:"Standard"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Section Close|Visible:Y|BoundaryTop:10|BoundaryBottom:10|Lines:5|Color:Default
|StaffProperties|Muted:N|Volume:127|StereoPan:64|Device:0|Channel:2
|StaffInstrument|Patch:0|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127
|Clef|Type:Bass
|Key|Signature:Bb,Eb,Ab,Db,Gb,Cb|Tonic:G
|TimeSig|Signature:3/4
|Rest|Dur:Whole|Opts:Stem=Down
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposer-End

Re: Beats in a bar

Reply #4 – 2025-10-05 01:36 PM

Let's see if I can post this before Lawrie beats me to it

(Disclaimer: I am American, hence I use the fractional note names.)

This is easy to correct, as follows:

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.751,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:Bb,Eb,Ab,Db,Gb,Cb|Tonic:G
|TimeSig|Signature:3/4
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:-4,-1|Opts:Stem=Down|Dur2:4th,Dotted|Pos2:2
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up,ArticulationsOnStem,HideRest|Dur2:4th|Pos2:-2
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First|Dur2:4th|Pos2:-2,1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

The thing to remember when you are using two parts per staff is that when you have two notes of different durations at the same position (like the dotted quarter stem up and plain quarter stem down), the duration that is reserved for that position is that of the shorter note. NWC created the "rest chord" as a way of dealing with this. A rest chord is basically a split chord where one of the two notes is a rest. Also, in a rest chord, the rest duration must be less than or equal to the note duration (i.e. you can't have a half rest and a quarter note.) So for your example, I change the lone quarter note to a rest chord with an eighth rest, which "steals" an eighth duration from the first two notes, so that the total duration is now 3 eighth beats, and the parts line up again.

You'll notice that the rest is shown greyed out. That is because a rest chord has an option of hiding the rest in the printout, since you don't always want to see them.

Re: Beats in a bar

Reply #5 – 2025-10-06 09:46 AM

Brilliant! thank you....
Exectly what I wanted - in a elegant way.

Re: Beats in a bar

Reply #6 – 2025-10-06 11:17 AM

OK (Sigh) this made perfect sense to me - until the next bar.
Please help me understand how this should work.
From what I understand I need to 'steal' 3 eigth beats from the top line.
But whatever I try doesnt work.

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposer(2.751)
|Editor|ActiveStaff:1|CaretIndex:4|CaretPos:-3
|SongInfo|Title:""|Author:"<Name>"|Lyricist:""|Copyright1:"Copyright © 2025 <Name>"|Copyright2:"All Rights Reserved"
|PgSetup|StaffSize:16|Zoom:4|TitlePage:Y|JustifyVertically:Y|PrintSystemSepMark:N|ExtendLastSystem:N|DurationPadding:Y|PageNumbers:0|StaffLabels:None|BarNumbers:None|StartingBar:1
|Font|Style:StaffItalic|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:10|Bold:Y|Italic:Y|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:StaffBold|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:Y|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:StaffLyric|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:7.2|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageTitleText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:24|Bold:Y|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:12|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageSmallText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User1|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User2|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User3|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User4|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User5|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User6|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|PgMargins|Left:1.27|Top:1.27|Right:1.27|Bottom:1.27|Mirror:N
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff"|Group:"Standard"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Section Close|Visible:Y|BoundaryTop:12|BoundaryBottom:12|Lines:5|Color:Default
|StaffProperties|Muted:N|Volume:127|StereoPan:64|Device:0|Channel:1
|StaffInstrument|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:Bb,Eb,Ab,Db,Gb,Cb|Tonic:G
|TimeSig|Signature:3/4
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:-4,-1|Opts:Stem=Down|Dur2:4th,Dotted|Pos2:2
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up,ArticulationsOnStem,HideRest|Dur2:4th|Pos2:-2
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First|Dur2:4th|Pos2:-2,1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-5^,-3|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First|Dur2:4th,Dotted|Pos2:2
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-5,-1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:-5,-2|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposer-End

Really appreciate the help you are giving me....
Noteworthy is a great programme - and so well supported...
I dont normally use it for complex things - but just occasionally things crop up

Andrew.

Re: Beats in a bar

Reply #7 – 2025-10-06 11:34 AM

Sometimes strugglng to understand the workings of these complicated chording and apply your knowledge just isn't worth the effort.

Layering can be your friend.

Here I think you can do what you need using a layered staff. Add a new staff below the one you're working in. You can either fill it with rests (with visibility=never) until you reach that particular bar, then copy the lower notes of the chords in that bar to the new staff. Delete them from the top staff, and set the top staff to "Layer with next staff."

You can also simply copy the entire original staff to the new one, and going to the target bar in both staffs, do the same as above.

Re: Beats in a bar

Reply #8 – 2025-10-06 12:00 PM

Layering works but, if only for this, it's an overkill.

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.751,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:Bb,Eb,Ab,Db,Gb,Cb|Tonic:G
|TimeSig|Signature:3/4
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:-4,-1|Opts:Stem=Down|Dur2:4th,Dotted|Pos2:2
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up,ArticulationsOnStem,HideRest|Dur2:4th|Pos2:-2
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First|Dur2:4th|Pos2:-2,1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-5^,-3|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First|Dur2:4th,Dotted|Pos2:2
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-5,-1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up,ArticulationsOnStem,HideRest|Dur2:Half|Pos2:-5,-2
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Hint: read attentively what Mike wrote.

N.B. NWC doesn't care, but the stem direction of the 2/4 chord was wrong.

Re: Beats in a bar

Reply #9 – 2025-10-06 12:56 PM

Again - thank you so much for your help.
I *thought* I had tried your solution, and couldnt get the 'rest chord' to enter.
(I tried many varients, trying to understand what Mike had written. I see now where I had misunderstood)
And take your point about the stem direction on the 2/4 chord.
It was correct in my original - must have changed as I tried various opotions..

Thanks David - I had considered layering - but thought there must be a more elegant solution!

Again - thank you Mike and Flurmy for your help with this.
On to the next bar!

Andrew.

Re: Beats in a bar

Reply #10 – 2025-10-06 01:13 PM

One thing I forgot to mention about rest chords is that you have to create them by first placing the rest, and then press Ctrl-Enter to add the chord member notes. If the rest chord's note is pointing in the wrong direction, you can highlight the rest chord and press Shift+up arrow or Shift+down arrow.