Start-Cancel/Forbid collapsible section

Topic: Start-Cancel/Forbid collapsible section (Read 3394 times) previous topic - next topic

Start-Cancel/Forbid collapsible section

2022-09-24 06:44 pm

Greetings to you!
For a few days now I've been breaking my head with a complicated score. I am attaching it to you: I have highlighted the part I am trying to transcribe (I am already in the fourth edition of my work, the first three ended up in the trash ...). Therefore, the staff "falsetti tenors I and II occupies the first five bars, then disappears to reappear in the last three (18-20). From bars 6 to 17 it should not appear. I tried and tried to work on the Boundary (Start a collapsible section and Cancel / forbid collapse from this bar), nothing, the damn bars from 6 to 17 do not disappear. Where am I wrong? In one of the previous "editions" I was able to hit the target in the baritone / bass parts, also present in "united" form (bars 1-12 and 18-20) and in "detached" form (13-17), I think in a purely casual way, even if after many attempts.
In short and not to tire you, I enclose my attempted work for the falsetti tenors I and II.
Good evening and good Sunday.
Lorenzo

Re: Start-Cancel/Forbid collapsible section

Reply #1 – 2022-09-24 07:58 pm

I don't know in the full score, but in the example you attached... you can't hide everything, even if just for a while!

Nell'esempio che hai fornito hai "nascosto" tutti i pentagrammi.
Non puoi nascondere tutto, anche se solo per qualche battuta!

Re: Start-Cancel/Forbid collapsible section

Reply #2 – 2022-09-24 11:07 pm

It is true, a completely inappropriate example.
I corrected, adding the baritone and bass parts (they are not exactly like the original score, but it doesn't matter at the moment, as long as they cover all measures): there are still the empty bars 13-17 of the falsetto tenors I and II ! Where is my mistake?

Thanks Maurizio, good night!
Lorenzo

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

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!NoteWorthyComposer-End

Re: Start-Cancel/Forbid collapsible section

Reply #3 – 2022-09-25 02:09 am

Hi Lorenzo,
does this suit?

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposer(2.751)
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|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:4
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|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0
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|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up
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|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatClose
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:8th,Dotted|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Up
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:7|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Up
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:n6|Opts:Stem=Up
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half,Dotted|Pos:#6|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Up
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:7|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Up
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:#4
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff-2"|Group:"Standard"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Section Close|Visible:Y|BoundaryTop:10|BoundaryBottom:10|Lines:5|MultiPartDotPlacement:Y|Color:Default
|StaffProperties|Muted:N|Volume:127|StereoPan:64|Device:0|Channel:4
|StaffInstrument|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127
|User|BarCounter.nw|Pos:7|Class:StaffSig|AllBars:Y
|Clef|Type:Bass
|Key|Signature:F#,C#|Tonic:D
|Text|Text:"Bassi"|Font:User6|Scale:85|Pos:-10|Color:1
|TimeSig|Signature:Common
|Rest|Dur:Half
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0^|Opts:Tie=Downward
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatOpen
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0^|Opts:Tie=Downward
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0|Opts:Tie=Downward
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Down,XNoteSpace=1.5
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Down
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0|Opts:XNoteSpace=1.5
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Down
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Down
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:Whole|Pos:-7,-3
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatClose
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th,Dotted|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,XDotSpace=0.5
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:7|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:4
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:2
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:1
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half,Dotted|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half,Dotted|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:Half,Dotted|Pos:-3,4|Opts:XNoteSpace=1
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:-4,3|Opts:Stem=Down
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:Whole|Pos:-5,2
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0
!NoteWorthyComposer-End

If you look at the barline at the start of bar 18 in the two "Falsetti Ten." parts you'll see I've moved the Boundary End Collapse to AFTER the barline instead of in front of it where you had it placed.
By having it before the barline the "End Collapse" was part of the system you were trying to collapse so it was ending the collapse for that whole system. Moving it to after that barline fixes this problem.

N.B. if the system break moves, then this may stop doing what you want. In this particular case there is a specific system break in the top staff that forces bar 18 to be a new system thus making the correct position for the "End Collapse" AFTER that barline.

Re: Start-Cancel/Forbid collapsible section

Reply #4 – 2022-09-25 05:02 am

Quote from: Lawrie Pardy – 2022-09-25 02:09 am

Hi Lorenzo,
does this suit?

Hi Lawrie, your result is just what I was looking for and I have not been able to achieve! Optimal! I have to study your code and the consequent nwc file thoroughly and get a clear and definitive idea of the use of collapsables. The original score that I attached to my first speech lends itself perfectly to this purpose

.
Thank you very much and have a nice day.
Lorenzo

Re: Start-Cancel/Forbid collapsible section

Reply #5 – 2022-09-25 06:14 am

Quote from: lawrroc – 2022-09-25 05:02 am

Hi Lawrie, your result is just what I was looking for and I have not been able to achieve! Optimal! I have to study your code and the consequent nwc file thoroughly and get a clear and definitive idea of the use of collapsables.
<snip>

Glad it suits mate.

As a clue to find the differences quickly, just look at bar 18 in both scores. The changes are only in the Falsetti Ten. I&II staves. NB the location of the system break in the top staff is part of the picture.

Re: Start-Cancel/Forbid collapsible section

Reply #6 – 2022-09-25 11:59 am

I added a staff of whole rests to see if your special parts would be hidden. It only worked when I took changed the barlines to not force a system break.

Re: Start-Cancel/Forbid collapsible section

Reply #7 – 2022-09-26 06:04 am

Good day to you,
here is the raw version of my "Deep River" (transcription by R. Dionisi for male choir). I started from scratch, inserting as many staves as there are various parts that split, come back together, etc., scrupulously following Lawrie's precious indications. I discovered - but it was probably a discovery just for me - that the overview of ALL the staves allows to give a complete and correct picture of the transcription. I only selected some parts, the ones that interested me at the moment, and the staves remained empty! When I entered all the notes and selected ALL the staves, I got what I was looking for. My problems - no problem, really, just indifference ... - with the English language cause these troubles. I thank you for your patience and Lawrie in particular!
Of course, any comments, advice or reproaches are welcome!
Lorenzo

PS1: in bar 9, voice of ten. II, there is a semibreve alone, I should have inserted another staff just for her. I haven't entered it. Tips?
PS2: I have not yet managed to connect the various staves with the grand staff brace, I will study them.

Re: Start-Cancel/Forbid collapsible section

Reply #8 – 2022-09-26 07:11 am

You actually need an orchestral bracket (and not a grand staff) to cover just the choral parts (and not the solo one), and for vocal music you should not have bars connected.

Go to Staff Properties/Visual and check Orchestral Bracket, and uncheck Bars Connected.

The solo part should be above the choral parts.

The master repeat won't work as you expect. Simplest is to change the bar lines to ordinary ones and take out the minim rests in the first bar (and change the semibreve ones into minims).

And finally, modern vocal music should beam notes in exactly the same way as orchestral music. Just click on each staff and click Tools/Automatic Beam. It really does make it easier to read.

Re: Start-Cancel/Forbid collapsible section

Reply #9 – 2022-09-26 08:01 am

Thanks, I'll check your suggestions!
Lorenzo

Re: Start-Cancel/Forbid collapsible section

Reply #10 – 2022-09-26 03:23 pm

Hi Lorenzo, thank you for your kind words. I am happy to be of assistance.

OK, after a brief look I have some observations:
a) there are some spots in the "7 Bar" and "8 Bassi" staves that would benefit from changing the slur direction. Upwards for "7 Bar" and down for "8 Bassi". E.G. bars 10, 11 and 12. You might also consider slur markers to further refine placement.

b) staff "10 Basso stacatto" is on MIDI channel 10 (probably auto assigned by NWC - a small failing in the software IMHO...). This is not a great idea as channel 10 is reserved for percussion. Best to move it to the next free channel which is 15.

c) I notice you haven't assigned any patches (instruments) to the staves. A fresh start of NWC will normally see them automatically behave as patch 0 (Acoustic Grand Piano), BUT if you playback a song that has instruments assigned and then playback this one without first restarting NWC, you will get the instrument assignments from the previous song. It is a good practice to always assign a patch to each staff.

d) I'm not sure what you meant by the missing semibreve...

e) Peter has already advised you about the orchestral staff thing.

Re: Start-Cancel/Forbid collapsible section

Reply #11 – 2022-09-26 05:44 pm

Thank you! I try to answer, as far as possible, always quickly but my interventions go through the Google translator! I have read your observations, always valuable and relevant. I didn't understand everything: I'll try to understand better, using the complete guide (translated ...). The only point on which I can answer you without difficulty is the "semibreve" argument of the 9th bar. I am attaching an image that should clarify the doubt.
Thanks again for your help and a happy night / evening / morning / afternoon, depending on your time zone ...
Lorenzo

Re: Start-Cancel/Forbid collapsible section

Reply #12 – 2022-09-27 12:30 am

Quote from: lawrroc – 2022-09-26 05:44 pm

Thank you! I try to answer, as far as possible, always quickly but my interventions go through the Google translator! I have read your observations, always valuable and relevant. I didn't understand everything: I'll try to understand better, using the complete guide (translated ...).

Let's try this - I'll tell you what to do and you can see the changes:
a) Staff "7 Bar": and "8 Bassi", at bars bar 10, 11 and 12: change the slur direction like this:

"7 Bar"

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.751,Single)
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward
|Note|Dur:8th,Dotted|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:7|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward
|Boundary|Style:Collapse
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

"8 Bassi"

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.751,Single)
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Downward
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Downward
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Downward
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Downward,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Downward,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Downward
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Downward
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Downward
|Note|Dur:8th,Dotted|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Downward
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Downward
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Downward
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:7|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Downward
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Downward
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Downward
|Boundary|Style:Collapse
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

b) staff "10 Basso stacatto" is on MIDI channel 10. Go to the staff properties <Alt+Enter> Select the MIDI tab, and change the MIDI channel to 15 instead of 10. MIDI channel 10 is for percussion/drums. MIDI Channel 15 is the next unused one in your score.

c) Always assign an instrument to each staff. Go to staff properties <Alt+Enter> Select the Instrument tab and assign an instrument using the "Predefined instruments..." button

Quote

The only point on which I can answer you without difficulty is the "semibreve" argument of the 9th bar. I am attaching an image that should clarify the doubt.
Thanks again for your help and a happy night / evening / morning / afternoon, depending on your time zone ...
Lorenzo

Yes, because of stem directions it needs its own staff.

Always happy to help. I'm in Australia, on the East coast, so I think I'm 9 hours ahead of you. Sleep well.