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changing the key

I did not find the button for attaching the file, except if I start with the new email. Attached is the scores that I want to increase the tone by 2 sharp, my friend suggested. I though I can just plug 2 sharp.

Thanks for any idea

Re: changing the key

Reply #1 –
Quote from: FrankSit –
I did not find the button for attaching the file, except if I start with the new email. Attached is the scores that I want to increase the tone by 2 sharp, my friend suggested. I though I can just plug 2 sharp.

Thanks for any idea
Before we start, I apologise for the length of this post, but I'm more interested in helping you understand the "why" instead of just the "how".

Ok then, this is called "Transposition".  It is about changing the key a song is written in.

There are 3 primary reasons for wanting to transpose a song, or parts of a song.
  • You need to accommodate an instrument that is not written in concert pitch. 
    Piano, or violin, or oboe or tuned percussion etc. are concert pitch instruments. 
    Saxophone, or clarinet, or trumpet, or french horn, or cor anglais etc. are not.  These latter need to have their parts written in a different key so that they sound the same pitch as a concert pitch instrument.

  • The key a song is written in puts the notes outside the comfortable range of the singer(s).  Transposing the song can put it into an acceptable range.

  • A song that is the same key throughout can sometimes become, dare I say it, a little boring.  A modulation (transposition) to another key partway through so the latter part is in a different key to the earlier part can add interest and excitement.

The song you have shown is written in concert pitch (SATB scores are always in concert pitch).  Your friend wants you to transpose the score up by 2 semitones*, taking it from the key of C (no sharps or flats) to the key of D (2 sharps).  It could also be the relative minors E.G. from Am to Bm but I don't want to complicate things unnecessarily.  The same explanation applies anyway.

* While it isn't stated, this is probably for reason 2 above.

If you are in the key of C (as in this case), then every note in the song is related back to the root note which is C.  If you want to transpose to D (2 sharps) then you MUST retain these relationships to the new root note (D) for the song to sound the same, but a tone higher. 
<edit> It is not sufficient to simply change the key signature, the notes must be changed as well.

So:
Starting notebecomes
CD
C#D#
DE
D#F
EF#
FG
GA
G#A#
AB
A#C
BC#
or the enharmonic flats (E.G. A#=Bb, D#=Eb etc.)

NWC gives you a tool to do this.  It is called "Transpose Staff" and is accessible from the |Tools| menu. 
The keyboard shortcut is: <Alt+T><T>

IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT:
If the part or song is in C (or Am) then you MUST have a C key signature in place for this to work properly.  If you are in any other key then you will already have an appropriate key signature in place.

To place a C key signature press <K><C><Enter> and you will see a natural sign appear on the F line of the staff.  This sign is hidden so will not show up in a print out, but it is absolutely necessary for the transposition function to work.  Do this for each staff that is in C.

To use it; make the staff to be transposed active then press <Alt+T><T> and you will get a dialogue box that allows you to specify:
How many semitones to transpose (up or down [-])
Whether or not to transpose the staff playback transposition **
Specify how you want the new key to look (minimise sharps/flats, prefer flats to sharps or prefer sharps to flats)

To change your example song:
First I assume you already have it entered into NWC, with C key signatures in place.
  • Select the top staff; press <Alt+T><T>;
  • Change the semitones to "2" (positive, not negative);
  • UNcheck the playback transposition (we're changing the key of the song, not accommodating a transposing instrument);
  • Select Minimise Sharp/Flat count in key;
  • Press <Enter> or click OK

Repeat for every staff, including hidden ones.  NB.  NWC will remember, until you exit, the selections you have made so for each subsequent staff you can just press:
<Alt+T><T><Enter>

** This option is important.  Use it if you are transposing a staff for a non-concert pitch instrument, like trumpet.  HOWEVER, if you are transposing to move the song to a new key (as in the case of this example) then you need this to be unchecked. 
The reason for this is the "playback transposition", if active, will play the song back in the original key, despite the new written key.  This is important for transposing instrument staves/parts to sound right with the rest of the parts.

NWC has some limitations in the transposition tool:
  • It cannot transpose part of a staff, it is all or nothing
  • It cannot transpose the whole song in one go, you must do each staff individually
  • A staff to be transposed MUST have a key signature (refer to the RED warning above)
  • It does not transpose text entries for chord - there is a user tool for this (Transpose Chords (ADP) )
  • The ChordPlay.nw object does respond to staff transposition, but this is a function of how ChordPlay works

See my next post for a short (very short) discussion on transposing instruments.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: changing the key

Reply #2 –
Transposing Instruments:

What are transposing instruments and why do we care?

Transposing instruments are instruments whose music is written (usually in treble clef) with respect to the native pitch of the instrument rather than concert pitch. 
OK, what does that mean?

Let's take a trumpet for an example:
Now, normally a trumpet is a Bb instrument.  There are exceptions which will help make things clearer later.
The reason it is called a Bb instrument is that its fundamental note, with no valves operated, is a concert Bb.  From the players perspective we call this fundamental note C, even though it is still a concert Bb.  Bear with me, this will make sense soon.

Trumpets normally have 3 valves.  When played, the combination of which valves are pressed (operated) and the players embouchure control what pitch a note sounds.
If there are no valves operated and the player "blows" the lowest note they can (ignoring pedals which are a special case) then that note is considered, and written as, middle C on a treble staff.

Trumpets come in several pitches.  You will see Bb, A, C, D and Eb most commonly though by far the most prevalent is the Bb.  If a trumpet is mentioned without a key then it will be a Bb trumpet.

In ALL cases the lowest note with no valves operated is called middle C.  This means that with correctly written (and transposed) music the player can pick up their trumpet and play from the music and not have to think about using different valve and embouchure combinations to play the correct pitch.

If playing written (transposed) middle C
A Bb trumpet will sound a concert pitch Bb below concert middle C
An A trumpet will sound a concert pitch A below concert middle C
A C trumpet will sound a concert pitch C (this one happens to be in concert pitch)
A D trumpet will sound a concert pitch D above concert middle C
An Eb trumpet will sound a concert pitch Eb above concert middle C

As I hope you can appreciate this makes things a lot easier for the musician if they need to move from one trumpet to another.  It even helps if moving from one brass instrument to another*.

Pretty much the same thing applies to all other transposing instruments, but lets take another example: The Saxophone. 

Saxophones commonly come in 4 varieties (again, there are exceptions):
Soprano (Bb)
Alto (Eb)
Tenor (Bb)
Baritone (Eb)

By having transposed music for each instrument the player can move to any of them without having to know multiple fingering in order to play the correct pitch. 

In fact, without this transposition they would most likely be written in different clefs as well making moving around from instrument to instrument even harder. 

Think violinist playing viola, suddenly they have to read alto clef instead of treble clef, not to mention that the strings are different pitches too.  If they go to 'Cello then they need to read bass clef as well.  I believe it was to overcome the difficulties this brings that the idea of transposing instruments first came about.

=========
In order to correctly transpose music for a transposing instrument you need to know the key of the instrument AND whether it sounds above or below the concert pitch note.

E.G. the Bb trumpet mentioned earlier sounds below the concert pitch of the written note.  So, in order to get the sounding note the correct pitch the music must be written 2 semitones HIGHER than concert pitch (Bb is 2 semitones LOWER than C so the written music must compensate for this).

If the music was being written for an alto saxophone then it must be written 9 semitones higher than concert pitch because an alto saxophone playing its' C actually sounds the concert Eb BELOW C.  The distance between Eb to the C above it is 9 semitones, so to sound a middle C the alto sax music must be written as a second space A (9 semitones)

For Horn in F the difference is 7 semitones, and so on for other transposing instruments.  Note however that Horn is a somewhat different beast...  If you are going to write for horn, talk to a horn player!

For Baritone sax, the difference is a whopping 21 semitones!

* In a British tradition brass band ALL the instruments (excluding bass trombone) are written in transposed treble clef, including tenor trombones and tuba's (usually called basses)

Soprano cornet - in Eb - is written 3 semitones down from concert pitch
Cornet and Flugel Horn - in Bb - is written 2 semitones up from concert pitch
Tenor horn (more properly it should be called an alto horn) - in Eb - is written 9 semitones up
Euphonium, Baritone and Tenor Trombone** - in Bb - is written 14 semitones up
Eb Tuba - in Eb - is written 21 semitones up
Bb Tuba - in Bb - is written 26 semitones up

** outside of British tradition brass bands Tenor trombones are normally considered a concert pitch instrument and written in bass clef.  Historically they have also been written in concert pitch Tenor clef which uses the same note positions*** on the staff as transposed treble for Bb instruments but have a key signature with 2 extra flats (or 2 less sharps).

*** A tenor clef middle C is on the 4th line of the staff and is played in 3rd position on the slide.  If you have a transposed treble clef part for a trombone then that concert middle C is now called a D and is still on the 4th line of the (now treble) staff and still played in 3rd position on the slide.

I hope this has been more helpful than confusing.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: changing the key

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
Transposing Instruments:

I hope this has been more helpful than confusing.

Thank you Lawrie, I like your explanation, I am gonna read it slowly so that I can understand it well.

Thank you,

FRank

Re: changing the key

Reply #4 –
Quote
IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT:
If the part or song is in C (or Am) then you MUST have a C key signature in place for this to work properly.  If you are in any other key then you will already have an appropriate key signature in place.

To place a C key signature press <K><C><Enter> and you will see a natural sign appear on the F line of the staff.  This sign is hidden so will not show up in a print out, but it is absolutely necessary for the transposition function to work.  Do this for each staff that is in C.

Thanks for that bit of information! I've used Noteworthy for years and didn't realize that. I must have been lucky in what I've transposed always having been in a non-C key.

Re: changing the key

Reply #5 –
While I realize this requirement is in place, and sort of understand the reasoning behind it, I very much hope if/when there is a new version of NWC, that the transpose function can be changed to assume there is a C key signature present if it doesn't find one. I wouldn't think it would be that hard to do this.

Now, if there isn't even a clef present, then all bets are off.

Re: changing the key

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Mike Shawaluk –
While I realize this requirement is in place, and sort of understand the reasoning behind it, I very much hope if/when there is a new version of NWC, that the transpose function can be changed to assume there is a C key signature present if it doesn't find one. I wouldn't think it would be that hard to do this.

Now, if there isn't even a clef present, then all bets are off.
Hi Mike, at first blush this seems eminently sensible, but then I remembered that there are works that are deliberately without a key signature*.  If a transposition of such a work was required, it would need to remain keyless yet still be transposed (using accidentals as required).  NWC seems to handle this just right as it stands.

* IIRC writing for natural Horn was traditionally done this way, so called "Old Notation".  Though I'm not sure they used accidentals in the writing...  There's lots of confusing practices (traditions?) in early Horn writing :(  I don't even know whether they were written as transposing instruments or concert pitch instruments or what.  :o  
Horn in F, sure, just make sure the right crook is in; need to change to Horn in C# 'cos you need notes in that harmonic series, no worries, just change the crook...  I bet horn players are really, really happy valves were invented and they're now written as transposing instruments with an actual key signature!  :))  :))

<edit> Just did a little reading...  From the examples I found it seems that crooks were chosen/specified so that the horn was always written without a key signature.  E.G. key is F, choose the F crook, key change to D, change to the D crook, music still has no key signature BUT the notation was relative to the crook, so was actually transposed from concert to match the crook.  F crook?  write down a 4th but play up the octave ????  (these days the transposition would be UP a 5th - go figure), change to D crook, change the writing to down a 7th but play up the octave - no wonder Horn is considered hard, quite apart from how hard the damn things are to pitch :o </edit>

As for the clef, as I'm sure you're aware, NWC assumes a treble clef if none is present.  This seems like a reasonable approach to me.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: changing the key

Reply #7 –
Quote
... normally a trumpet is a Bb instrument.  There are exceptions which will help make things clearer later.
The reason it is called a Bb instrument is that its fundamental note, with no valves operated, is a concert Bb.  From the players perspective we call this fundamental note C, even though it is still a concert Bb...
Trumpets come in several pitches.  You will see Bb, A, C, D and Eb most commonly though by far the most prevalent is the Bb.  If a trumpet is mentioned without a key then it will be a Bb trumpet. In ALL cases the lowest note with no valves operated is called middle C. 

The theory is a little different for transposing reed instruments - clarinets, saxes, and english horns, and some flutes (oboe, most flutes and bassoons don't transpose).

Saxes and clarinets are not normally explained in terms of their fundamental note.  The lowest note on most Bb soprano clarinets is a written E, which is D on the piano.  If you don't close any of the tone holes, you get a written G, or concert F.  The lowest note on saxophones is usually written Bb which will be Ab on the piano for the Bb saxes and Db on the piano for the Eb saxes.  Some members of the clarinet family play lower - vintage alto and bass clarinets traditionally go down to written Eb and modern bass clarinets down to written C below that.  The low note on many modern baritone saxes is a written A.

The "name" of the instrument - "Bb" tenor sax, "Eb" alto sax is the concert pitch note heard when a written C is played.   On your soprano or tenor, when you play C that same note on a piano is Bb.  On alto or bari, C gives you Eb.  

Three members of the clarinet family are pitched in Eb and some saxes are pitched in C (I have a C soprano and a C melody).  Clarinets used for symphonic work are often pitched in A and I think I've seen ads for clarinets in C as well.  Recently somebody on Facebook posted a short video of him playing a bass clarinet pitched in G which he made with a 3-D printer.

Sorry I wrote so much.  All I am trying to say is that transposing woodwind instruments are not named for their fundamental notes (if they even have them).

Re: changing the key

Reply #8 –
Hey David,
yep, you're absolutely correct regarding reeds/woodwinds.  I have no idea how they decided what defines a Bb, F, Eb, A, C instrument in these categories.  BUT as I understand it they mostly have quite similar, or even identical, fingering systems.  So the fingering for a "C" will produce a concert Bb on a Bb instrument, the same (almost) fingering on an Eb instrument will still be called a C but produce a concert Eb etc..

Perhaps this deliberate approach to make consistent fingerings is how their keys were originally defined, and have remained so to this day.  At least, that's my best guess for now.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: changing the key

Reply #9 –
Well, my idea about it is that those instruments have a "natural" way to play a scale, and this is called a C scale.
In a sense is the same as saying that the piano is an instrument in C because, using only the white keys, you get a C scale.

Of course, that's not carved in stone.
For example the harps, that are tuned in Eb (lever) or Cb (pedal) but are notated in C.
I'm also thinking to the baroque recorder. In that flute the fourth degree (let's call it F) has a fork fingering in the right hand, but the basic idea is still valid.

Re: changing the key

Reply #10 –
Quote
Perhaps this deliberate approach to make consistent fingerings is how their keys were originally defined, and have remained so to this day.  At least, that's my best guess for now.
My best guess too.

Quote
I'm also thinking to the baroque recorder.

I don't have a baroque recorder but do have an alto recorder that I never play.   Wikipedia says
Quote
The F alto is a non-transposing instrument . . . So-called F fingerings are therefore used ...  in contrast to the C fingerings used for most other woodwinds...
When the instrument was given to me, maybe 40 years ago?, it came with fingering charts for both F and C fingerings, so the player had some flexibiility. . 

 

Re: changing the key

Reply #11 –
Indeed, playing the "natural" scale on both the alto and the sopranino recorder you get a scale of F while, with the soprano and tenor, you get a scale of C, but it's a player's duty to "transpose" because the whole family is written in concert pitch.

Talking of oddities: the harp octaves are counted from the treble to the bass and each octave starts with an F...
Go figure!  ::)

Re: changing the key

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Flurmy –
Indeed, playing the "natural" scale on both the alto and the sopranino recorder you get a scale of F while, with the soprano and tenor, you get a scale of C, but it's a player's duty to "transpose" because the whole family is written in concert pitch.
<snip>
ARRGGHHHH ;)

Here's another little oddity I've seen in European, but never in American or Australian or British sheet music.

You may have noted from my little missive on transposing instruments that I said transposed music was always in treble clef...  This isn't actually quite correct.  I should have said "usually".
The exception that I see occasionally in European published sheet music for concert bands is transposed BASS clef.
It seems to work like this: You will be supplied with, say, a Euphonium part in 2 or maybe 3 flavours:
  • Euphonium (sometimes it will say Euphonium in C)- this will be concert pitch bass clef
  • Euphonium in Bb - this will be a transposed part in treble clef
  • Euphonium in Bb - BC (or Bass Clef) - this will be a transposed part in bass clef

You always seem to get the concert bass clef part and in addition you usually get the transposed treble clef part, and often the transposed bass clef part as well.  It's the last one, the transposed bass clef part that drives me nuts.

I can read concert treble and sight transpose for a Bb instrument no problems, I can read transposed treble no problems, I can read concert tenor clef no problems, ditto concert bass clef parts, but those damn transposed bass clef parts seem to trigger a serious mental block for me.  I just can't seem to do it.  Perhaps a little serious application might make it work, but I really don't see the point of them. As far as I can tell all they do is add confusion.  Even our band librarians (I'm in a couple of concert bands) don't like them because of the added, and seemingly useless, inventory.

If they actually serve a useful purpose then I'm happy to be enlightened.

<edit> Minor correction here: French Horn (in modern notation) while usually in treble clef, may sometimes also include bass clef sections.  These are ALL transposed, they don't transpose just the treble portion but the bass as well.  This is perfectly logical to me, but I'm glad I don't play horn ;)
</edit>
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.