Overlaying parts

Topic: Overlaying parts (Read 5903 times) previous topic - next topic

Overlaying parts

2011-07-10 02:53 pm

I use NWC mostly for SATB choral works. If two parts share a stave, NWC does the right thing with visual conflicts, eg position of notes that are close in pitch or stem lengths of quavers etc.. However for learning parts it is more helpful to have each part on its own stave but overlay them; now I have to resolve the conflicts manually by adjusting stem lengths (sometimes to zero) or adding note spacing where required.

It is of course possible to have two sets of staves - one visible but muted, the other undisplayed but audible - but that makes editing tedious and there is a danger of discrepancies creeping in between the two sets.

Does anyone have ideas of how to capture NWC's musical intelligence, for example by deleting one note in a chord but retaining any special treatment given to the other?

-- Brian Maskell

Re: Overlaying parts

Reply #1 – 2011-07-10 07:44 pm

I'd like to see an example of what you mean. If you can put tenors and basses on the same staff through layering, you can select the tenor staff and force stems up--basses stem down. You already know about extra spacing when otherwise the notes may overlap the same space.

HTH

Re: Overlaying parts

Reply #2 – 2011-07-10 09:28 pm

Yes indeed, some problems can be resolved with stems up/down but that is not always desirable.

Here is a little sample of two parts on one stave. NWC resolves all the conflicts.

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:F#
|TimeSig|Signature:2/4
|Text|Text:"two parts on one stave"|Font:StaffItalic|Pos:9
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:n-3,-1|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:#-6,-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-6,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:b-5,b-4
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-1,0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-1,0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

If I put the two parts on separate staves (eg using adp's very useful Parts tool) and simply overlay them, there are stem conflicts with the quaver notes, accidental conflicts and note head conflicts. All of these can be resolved with some rather painstaking adjustment; for example here are two separate staves which, when overlayed, will print correctly and play correctly, allow the audio of the parts to be controlled separately but not require anything to be duplicated or dictate stem directions.
Upper part:

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:F#
|TimeSig|Signature:2/4
|Text|Text:"manually adjusted and overlayed"|Font:StaffItalic|Pos:9
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:b-4|Opts:StemLength=0,XNoteSpace=1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,StemLength=0,Beam=First,XNoteSpace=1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,StemLength=0,Beam=End,XNoteSpace=1
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Lower part:

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:F#
|TimeSig|Signature:2/4
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:n-3|Opts:Stem=Up,StemLength=9
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:#-6|Opts:Stem=Up,StemLength=10,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,StemLength=9,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:b-5|Opts:XAccSpace=1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

So it can be done, but with a lot of trouble to replicate what NWC does. I was considering whether this process can be automated.

Re: Overlaying parts

Reply #3 – 2011-07-10 10:31 pm

I dunno. I suppose it could be done, but I'm not sure I'd like it. One of the beauties of layering in NWC is the ability for the user to choose how to avoid conflicts of the type you mention. I don't always like the way NWC avoids those conflicts, and I sometimes use layering in order to do it the way I want to, rather than the way NWC wants to. If layers automatically made spacing and stem adjustments as if everything was on the same layer.....well, you can see the problem I could have.

Re: Overlaying parts

Reply #4 – 2011-07-11 08:17 am

I think this method may be much less work than tweaking a lot of stems to make sure they line up and beams are overlaid.

Your first note is an eighth note two-note chord, F natural below an A, stem up. Write this chord twice, once on the top stem and the second time on a second staff:

On the first staff, use a 2 note chord, stem up, with a normal notehead for the A and a blank notehead for the F natural.
On the second staff, do the same chord, but use a blank notehead for the A and a normal notehead for the F natural.

You can then layer the two staffs.

Re: Overlaying parts

Reply #5 – 2011-07-11 12:56 pm

Quote from: Brian Maskell – 2011-07-10 09:28 pm

I was considering whether this process can be automated.

I this works for you, it is fairly easy to automate:

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposer(2.0)
|SongInfo|Title:""|Author:""|Lyricist:""|Copyright1:""|Copyright2:""
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff"|Group:"Standard"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Open (hidden)|Layer:Y
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:F#
|TimeSig|Signature:2/4
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:n-3^|Opts:Stem=Up,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:n-3,-1|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:#-6^|Opts:Stem=Up,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:#-6,-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:-6^|Opts:Stem=Up,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-6,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:b-5^|Opts:Stem=Up,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:b-5,b-4
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:-1^|Opts:Stem=Up,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-1,0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:-1^|Opts:Stem=Up,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-1,0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff-1"|Group:"Standard"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Open (hidden)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:F#
|TimeSig|Signature:2/4
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:-1^|Opts:Stem=Up,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:n-3,-1|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:-3^|Opts:Stem=Up,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:#-6,-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:-4^|Opts:Stem=Up,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-6,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:b-4^|Opts:Stem=Up,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:b-5,b-4
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:0^|Opts:Stem=Up,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-1,0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:0^|Opts:Stem=Up,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-1,0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposer-End

Easy to undo, just remove the hidden, muted, tied, grace notes. A "one shot" for global mod.

Re: Overlaying parts

Reply #6 – 2011-07-11 02:20 pm

I'd understand if you don't want to do it this way, but my NWCTXT2LY tool does this kind of thing pretty much automatically, by using Lilypond to do the typesetting. Google for nwctxt2ly to find the page with the instructions.

Re: Overlaying parts

Reply #7 – 2011-07-11 11:00 pm

Quote from: Brian Maskell – 2011-07-10 02:53 pm

Does anyone have ideas of how to capture NWC's musical intelligence, for example by deleting one note in a chord but retaining any special treatment given to the other?

No, if you delete one note in a chord, NWC will reconfigure the chord. I know of no method to avoid that.

If you want to mute a note in a chord, just tie a hidden, muted grace note into it. This works well if there are no lyrics.
Unfortunately, NWC's concept of 'Default' for Lyric Syllable leaves a bit to be desired:

Quote from: http://www.noteworthysoftware.com/nwc2/help/TAB_SNGNOTEPROPERTIES.htm

Lyric Syllable
By default, all notes except rests, grace notes, and notes that receive a tie or slur get attached to a lyric syllable.

To my way of thinking, a note/chord should not lose a lyric syllable because of a tie unless all the notes receive a tie.

Re: Overlaying parts

Reply #8 – 2011-07-13 01:24 pm

I made a similar inquiry about 3 years ago. I was hoping to write a user tool to do what you suggest, https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=6483.0 but, alas, I abandoned it. (So I have never actually written a user tool.) Of course, it would be nice if Noteworthy could do this automatically, similar to automatic beam. Then, you could tweek anything it did which you didn't like.