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Need help with audio hardware

The (small) church that I attend does not have a regular piano player. Frequently we must sing (congregational singing) without any music. Uhhh...not too good.  (Yes, I know that some folks and/or denominations think this is the way it should be done. Regardless, we believe in, and like, music with our singing.)

We bought a "Digital Hymnal" and it does OK, ‘cept it does not have many of the songs that we like. To overcome this shortcoming, I have been using NWC to sequence songs all of the songs from another hymnal.  (Mull Book, and, yes, it IS a big job.)I save these as a Type 1 MIDI.  I then record the MIDI files in .wav format, and then  record the .wav files onto a CD. We then play these CD’s and have a tad of "music" to sing with.

Rather a ponderous solution, don’t you think?

Well, I was thinking (dangerous thing for me to do!) that perhaps we might be able to buy a MIDI (or MP3) player suitable for church use and thereby be able to forego all the hassle and problems encountered by converting to .wav format and creating CD’s.

Trouble is, I know nothing about sound systems hardware, amplifiers, mixers, MIDI players, etc. and I’m needing some help with hardware.

Does anyone here have any expertise in this area:  sound systems/hardware suitable for a church to use for playing MIDI's and/or MP3's?

Alternatively, perhaps you know (and would be willing to recommend) someone who is knowledgeable in this area?

-- debo

Re: Need help with audio hardware

Reply #1 –
we must sing...without any music
Isn't that Rap?

Re: Need help with audio hardware

Reply #2 –
Why is this ponderous? or anymore ponderous than buying MORE gear?
The solution you have seems to me to be a pretty good one- more gear does mean more options for sounds but that's really it- if you add more gear you have more likelihood of problems.
j

Re: Need help with audio hardware

Reply #3 –
I haven't tried the conversion, but there must be an easier way.  Go to www.google.com and search for "midi to wave converter" - one program that's been touted in NWC is Timidity. Check it out at http://www.onicos.com/staff/iz/timidity/doc/README.html

That might make your job easier.

Alternatives or supplements to consider:

Find someone who has (and plays) an electric keyboard that can record midi files.  Have him or her record the music in midi format to a floppy disk.  You might have to pay him or her a few bucks, but I don't imagine it would be THAT much.  Many people will be happy to donate their services.

See if someone in your choir plays guitar and ask him or her to provide a guitar accompaniment.

Re: Need help with audio hardware

Reply #4 –
debo:

Almost all PC systems now come with sound card support. Most use a 1/8" stereo plug to connect to the PC speakers. These days, this is "line level" audio that you can route into almost any amplification equipment. You simply need to change the 1/8" into the line level input style supported by your sound reinforcement mixing board (most boards support at least one line level input).

As for the choices and trade-offs involved in picking a sound system, there is an almost endless selection of speakers, amps, and mixing boards from which to select. Since you said a small church, your budget is more likely to dictate your choices than anything else. If the building is physically small, this also makes your choice easier. You probably should discuss this with whomever you plan to purchase the equipment from.

Re: Need help with audio hardware

Reply #5 –
Debo, if it will make you feel any better: Our church DOES have music: a very fine organ, a very fine organist to play it, and other instruments from time to time.

But once in a while, when the Diocese general choir has a special event, we can only practice a couple of times, because we cover a large geographic area. When that happens, the choir director prepares tapes of any music that is not routine.

Once in a while, the tape includes something recorded from MIDI in just the manner that you described in your original post, above.

The most effective way, as you noted, is CD rather than tape.

I cannot think of any better or more cost-effective way to do this than the way you have it now. The advantage to playing a CD is that it does not require any special hookup, and does not require special skills to use it.

When I was visiting Vienna several years ago, some of the street musicians were singers, who would come out in tux (Vienna is a relatively sophisticated place) and sing opera arias accompanied by a boombox playing accompaniment.

Re: Need help with audio hardware

Reply #6 –
Hi Debo, really depends on how much you want to spend.You can pick up an old 486 or Pentium 1 with a sound card and monitor etc for about $50 and it will play midi or nwc files perfectly well. A set of powered speakers can be pretty cheap too. If it is a small group you can use something like van basco's karaoke, free download and it will play midi files and the lyrics from noteworthy and you can adjust the screen and the fonts and colors etc and just use the monitor to sing to.If you want mp3 or wav you will have to get a bit faster machine. If you hyave lots of money you can get a data projector for the PC and project on a screen.As others have said, an ordinary CD you burn will be most flexible.To save yourself time you can use somethimg like Jet Audio ,free download, to convert to either wav or mp3, and you just load your files and it will work through them and store them or it will even burn.Only catch is the instrument rendering is not always identical but it is still very acceptable. Rip Vinyl, another recording programme will record a stack of files in sequence in real time . Remember by the way when you make midi files, things like pauses and fermatas don't come out so you have to cheat and put in extra measures and tied notes to get the same audio effect on your CD.Lastly, if you need someone to encode your music for you into noteworthy, I will be happy to help,no charge. Will have to organize some means of getting the manuscript to me, either by mail or by scan and graphics file.

Re: Need help with audio hardware

Reply #7 –
Don't have the info in front of me right now (different computer at my new school)  but I saw Roland recently came out with a sort of boom box that plays MIDI files straight off of a floppy (maybe also CD).  Of course to do that, it also has it's own sound module, which makes it more expensive than an old computer but the Roland should sound better than an old computer's typical sound card, so it should be worth it.  If the MIDI file as is could use editing, open it in NWC and edit it to your liking, save it to disk as a Type 1 MIDI file and you're set.

Re: Need help with audio hardware

Reply #8 –
Re: llucyy

I have no trouble at all converting the NWC files to MIDI and/or .wav formats.  I write the file using NWC and save it as a Type 1 MIDI.  I am aware of the limitations of the MIDI format and I adjust the score to adjust for these.  Then I use MS Media Player to play the MIDI files and record this playback using MS Sound Recorder.  I save the resulting .wav files and use an Iomega CD-R to record exactly 20 songs on a CD.  Nary a bit of trouble and everything sounds OK, so, I suppose that I'll just keep on doing it this way.

Re: "...Lastly, if you need someone to encode your music for you into noteworthy, I will be happy to help,no charge...

I am using NWC to sequence the entire Mull's Singing Convention Number 5 songbook.  (381 pages and approx. 300 or so songs)  I have completed all songs through page 141 (approx. 112 songs--about 1/3 of the book) so far.  Each song takes me between  2 and 5 hours to complete, so you can see that this is a daunting task.  (Yes, I am aware that there is now a Mull's #6, but we, the church, still use Mull's  #5.)

Through experience, I have found that recorded music is a bit difficult for our little congregation to follow.  With a live director and piano/organ player it is relatively easy for everyone to start and end together.  Not so with a recording.  It takes everyone by surprise when the music starts.  With that in mind, I have standardized a format using several bars of the tune as an introduction.  I use a rit. near the end of the intro and then I add a cymbal crash at regular tempo to signal the end of the intro and (where possible) a single drum beat to lead into the start of the tune.  This helps everyone to begin together, and seems to work very well, indeed.

I am not trying to write "beautiful music".  Rather, I am trying to create CD's (and/or MIDI or MP3 files) that will do for our church to sing with whenever there is no live player.  So far, it seems to be working.

And, yes, I could use some help if you (and/or anyone else) would like to help.  If so, email me at debo@webjemm.net and we'll work out the particulars.  I really appreciate your offer to help.

Thanks,

-- alw

PS  Thanks to all who took time to reply.  Your thoughts and suggestions were very helpful.  After considering everything, I decided that I shall continue to make CD's and use these.
 

Re: Need help with audio hardware

Reply #9 –
no audio hardware is avalibale? how i do:(