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Topic: Problem with staff groupings (Read 17411 times) previous topic - next topic

Problem with staff groupings

Good morning all.

I have a very minor problem with staff groupings which is becoming iritating...

When I create a new piece of music, I generally create 5 staffs in the following order;

1. Vocal line (Visual:Style=Orchestral)
2. Piano (Visual:Style=Upper Grand Staff)
3. Piano (Visual:Style=Lower Grand Staff)
4. Bb clarinet (Visual:Style=Orchestral)
5. Eb saxaphone (Visual:Style=Orchestral)

The orchestral bracket appears correctly over all 5 staffs, and the Upper/Lower Grand bracket appears correctly on staffs 2 and 3.

However, the bar lines in staffs 4 and 5 are joined (in the same way as in staffs 2 and 3).

I can get round this by setting staff 4 to (Visual:Style=Standard), but surely I shoudn't have to!

Version I'm using is 1.75b

Re: Problem with staff groupings

Reply #1 –
That's because when you have braces, Noteworthy automatically makes the bar lines like that.  I wish that I could just have the Orchestral Style in sections among different groups of staves, or control barring a bit more. 

Isn't this automatic stuff why Noteworthy is a great program? ;-)
Really, what did you expect?

Re: Problem with staff groupings

Reply #2 –
To keep the "section open" style at the left of all your staffs, but still break the connecting bar lines between instrument groups, just insert layered staffs set to Standard and Open/Hidden Ending Bar under the last staff in each group.

Re: Problem with staff groupings

Reply #3 –
It would be nice if we control over the Starting Bar, just as we have control over the Ending Bar:
Staff Properties...
    General tab
        Starting Bar: Section Close
                          Master Repeat Close
                          Single
                          Double
                          Open (hidden)

    Visual tab
                Style:  Upper Brace
                          Upper Bracket
                          Upper Brace and Bracket
                          Lower Brace
                          Lower Bracket
                          Lower Brace and Bracket
                          Standard
                          Orchestral
                          Open

The last one would be for layered staffs for a single part.
When layering was experimental (how long ago was that?), the left end of the staff remained open, but once the feature was integrated, a "left barline" was produced.  I had printed a few parts without the left barline, and when I needed to print subsequent parts a year later, the left barline showed up - everyone noticed it (one woman even had "an episode that we never speak of...").

Re: Problem with staff groupings

Reply #4 –
Quote from: K.A.T. –
It would be nice if we control over the Starting Bar, just as we have control over the Ending Bar:
I agree.

To have an open bar on the left in a layered solo part you might try this workaround:

Save the page(s) as emf(s) (Or use GhostScript to print it as a file).
Using Irfanview, crop off the bar lines on the left side.

Isn't it time to eliminate the option to Extend last system, since Force System Break works so much better?
Registered user since 1996

Re: Problem with staff groupings

Reply #5 –
Actually, I think the better solution would be that if you select "Extend Last System", it took care of the same effect as "Force System Break" on a final bar line and then evenly spaced the last bars across the page.  To me, that would be the goal of "Extend Last System", not just to have a a full page-width system with a lot of white space in it.  But by keeping the option, you can still end the last staff in the middle of the page (which someone might use to print something next to it in a publishing program.  Just a thought.
John

Re: Problem with staff groupings

Reply #6 –
Agreed. I would not do away with an option that might come in handy at some point. It's OK to have both available. You never know.

Re: Problem with staff groupings

Reply #7 –
If you only have one staff, as for a separate part, then the left end of the staff remains open. If you layer it however, it shows the bar at the left.

Re: Problem with staff groupings

Reply #8 –
G'day Fitz,

Quote from: fitzclan –
If you only have one staff, as for a separate part, then the left end of the staff remains open. If you layer it however, it shows the bar at the left.

I can think of a couple of work arounds for that

  • Adjust your page margins such that the left margin is about 1 pixel outside your printers printable area.
  • Use some "Digital White Out" - set a highlight colour to white and place a character from a font like Wingdings that lets you overlay the left edge of the staff.

I prefer the first as it's easiest.  The second method means you need to repeat the process at every system break.  Not fun!
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Problem with staff groupings

Reply #9 –
Quote from: fitzclan –
If you only have one staff, as for a separate part, then the left end of the staff remains open. If you layer it however, it shows the bar at the left.
That's been my complaint all along...

Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
  • Adjust your page margins such that the left margin is about 1 pixel outside your printers printable area.
  • Use some "Digital White Out" - set a highlight colour to white and place a character from a font like Wingdings that lets you overlay the left edge of the staff.
The first method wrecks the measure numbers that appear at the beginning of each staff.
The second method needs absolutely perfect WYSIWYG to work (and we know that's not possible...).

Re: Problem with staff groupings

Reply #10 –
G'day K.A.T.,
'ow ya doin' mate?

Quote from: K.A.T. –
The first method wrecks the measure numbers that appear at the beginning of each staff.

Hmm, so it does.  I don't normally print bar numbers so it didn't occur to me.

Quote
The second method needs absolutely perfect WYSIWYG to work (and we know that's not possible...).


I use "digital white out" reasonably often.  It is an absolute must to use preview to manage placement, the edit window simply isn't up to the task, but while fiddly, it isn't hard.

In the case of covering the left of the staff, you would only have to get the placement relative to the start of the bar correct once and then copy the character to whichever location was necessary.  Not too difficult, but somewhat tiresome.

Overall, 'twould be better not to have to work around this.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Problem with staff groupings

Reply #11 –
Quote
The first method wrecks the measure numbers that appear at the beginning of each staff.

Does the digital whiteout have to extend above the top line of the staff?  The numbers are normally just above it, I think.

Re: Problem with staff groupings

Reply #12 –
G'day David,

Quote from: David Palmquist –
Does the digital whiteout have to extend above the top line of the staff?  The numbers are normally just above it, I think.

You choose.  I normally use Wingdings, grab a square character and size the font as necessary.  Being text, you can adjust the vertical placement quite easily.  Juggle size and placement to suit and you should have no problem.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Problem with staff groupings

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
G'day K.A.T.,
'ow ya doin' mate?
Not too bad, yourself?
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
In the case of covering the left of the staff, you would only have to get the placement relative to the start of the bar correct once and then copy the character to whichever location was necessary. 
If a line has a measure at the end that is so large that it is automatically moved to the next line, then the first-mentioned line has a "stretched" aspect to it, causing the placement of square to be different from other lines.  I've had to make 6 (or 7?) different text items per page on some charts, and I had to give up using this method more than once because the space is too wide [sometimes ya need 1.3 spaces or 1.7 spaces to get it to line up just right, and then when ya print - it di'na work right!].
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
Overall, 'twould be better not to have to work around this.
Exactly

Re: Problem with staff groupings

Reply #14 –
Hey K.A.T.
Maybe it's time to tell the lady with the episode to get over it. If that's the worst thing that happens to her, she's in pretty good shape. She ought to have a look around.
I know that's not very nice.
[move]I'm just sayin'![/move]

Re: Problem with staff groupings

Reply #15 –
The Episode Lady has left the group.
I haven't seen her for over two years.

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Re: Problem with staff groupings

Reply #16 –
Well then, I'm sure she's found someone else to complain to by now. As soon as you fix one thing, they find something else to zero in on. It's a type. There's one in every crowd!