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Topic: Staff justification (Read 6659 times) previous topic - next topic

Staff justification

I have just upgraded to noteworthy 2.5 after using earlier versions for a good while.  Can somebody tell me if there is now a simpler way of justifying the staff lengths so that a printed piece will always have the final bar to the right of the page?  I have always had to fiddle with font/staff and margin sizes to achieve this.  I can see that the use of the spacer tool could also be used, but this will also just introduce another permutation.  Maybe I'm missing something obvious?

Re: Staff justification

Reply #1 –
Easy !

On the top staff, put an additional bar line before the final bar line (two bar lines next to each other) This additional bar line should be the same type as your final bar line . Highlight the one you have just added and then go to the properties.  Check "Force System Break". This will then justify the final line.

There is another way with boundary properties - but this is the easiest.

Rich.

Re: Staff justification

Reply #2 –
Thanks for that!

Re: Staff justification

Reply #3 –
The "official" way should be "Page setup->Options->Extend last system" but the trick Rich explained is often better.

Re: Staff justification

Reply #4 –
Yes.  The Extend Last System option can still leave absurdly long final bars.  I haven't had a chance to try the suggested way yet, but I'm hoping it won't do that.

Re: Staff justification

Reply #5 –
I always find it best to look at the final page without the justification. Then if there are three of four measures on the final line, then the extending the final line using this method is usually ok.

If there is only one or two measures on the final line, then I usually force a return in an earlier measure to add more to the final line.

Not usually too much of a problem.
Rich.

Re: Staff justification

Reply #6 –
If there are only a few bars in the last line,
and the music allows it:
I gleefully use spacers to shoe-horn those last measures into the previous line.

For this to work, you may have to start reducing the spacing between notes, a page (or more) before the end.
It also needs to be done on all the voices / staves which show on the printed page.

That comes down to some experimenting - which would be a tedious task if all had to be done manually.

Rick G has provided two user tools, which make life much easier:

rg_Squash.php (which squashes the selection [or whole staff] to the absolute minimum.)
See:
https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=8003.msg56120#msg56120

and
rg_ZapSpacers.php (which removes all the spacers in the selection [or the whole staff]).
See:
https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=8131.msg57072#msg57072

I'm not much of a programmer, (and I did not understand Rick's advice to me) so I edited rg_Squash.php a number of times, to create spacers of various sizes, a sample of which is attached..

Re: Staff justification

Reply #7 –
A user tool is easier to use than this, but not by much.  This web page can insert starting (default) spacers between everything, then  increase or decrease their size.  Once open at the same time as NWC, use Alt/Tab to get between one and the other.
Since 1998

Re: Staff justification

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Haymo –
For this to work, you may have to start reducing the spacing between notes, a page (or more) before the end.
It also needs to be done on all the voices / staves which show on the printed page.

True if the note values are identical on all the staves, but a useful reduction can be made by shrinking, say, a semiquaver run on one staff where the other only has minim chords.

Re: Staff justification

Reply #9 –
IIRC, the effect of a spacer on a single staff extends across the entire system. So placing spacers at the same location in all staves is probably redundant - they need to be spread around. But to get back to the original poster's question, I have a very small bone to pick with Rich's response. I find inserting a boundary object easier to use than changing the barline attribute for extending systems (or creating system breaks). All one has to do is press the "end bracket" keyboard shortcut (]) and choose the last radio button in the dialogue box. And since Eric has stated that the barline attribute method is now a legacy technique, only maintained for backward compatibility, it seems wise to switch.

It's also necessary for newbies to know that both techniques work only on the topmost staff in a system.

Re: Staff justification

Reply #10 –
I don't have an argument with what you say, but what I find annoying is that even if you use the "end bracket" method, you still need to have inserted an additional bar line before the final bar line - Otherwise it forces a new system for the bar that the mark is on giving you a page with a single bar on it.

So I still prefer to insert the bar line and then change its properties rather than insert a bar line and then insert an bracket and then change the bracket's properties. I appreciate this is a legacy technique but while it works .......  I did say in my original reply that the other method was also available.

 
Rich.

Re: Staff justification

Reply #11 –
Quote
All one has to do is press the "end bracket" keyboard shortcut (]) and choose the last radio button in the dialogue box.

Thanks for this tip, Bill, this falls into my 'well, whaddaya know?' category.

A minor clarification:
Start a new page is only available if Force a new system is also selected.

I used Start a new page a few days ago but it never occurred to me to use it to extend a last system.  Users might find this possibly unintended benefit of it if the wording on its label were enhanced.  

Suggestion for Eric:
Replace Start a new page with Start a new page or Extend last system on page


In the help item add the emphasized words.
Quote
Force a new system
When added to the top staff in the system, this instruction can be used to force a new system to be started in the printout. If necessary, it can also be used to force the new system to start at the top of a new page and it can also be used to extend the last system on a page to the right margin.

Quote from: MikeA –
Yes.  The Extend Last System option can still leave absurdly long final bars.  I haven't had a chance to try the suggested way yet, but I'm hoping it won't do that.

Generally I just add a few Force System Break commands to overcome this.  If I have 3 bars on the last line and want 5, an FSB two bars before the end of the preceding line will help.  Using FSB and checking it with Print Preview will tell you if you need to do it on one or two more previous staffs too.  I find you don't need to do more than three or four FSBs on the page to make it look good.

Since it was also mentioned in this thread, you can often avoid printing one, two, or three staffs on a separate page by reducing the upper and lower boundaries in the Visual tab of the Staff Properties dialogue box.  I believe you can do this with Boundary Change too, but I haven't tried.   Another way to make your score use less paper is to adjust Staff Metrics in the Page Setup / Fonts size tab, but you don't want to make the font too small.

Re: Staff justification

Reply #12 –
Message combined with preceding one.  Can't figure out how to delete this one, though.

Re: Staff justification

Reply #13 –
Well, I did say it was a very small bone to pick ;-). And I agree with you on this:

Quote from: Richard Woodroffe –
....what I find annoying is that even if you use the "end bracket" method, you still need to have inserted an additional bar line before the final bar line - Otherwise it forces a new system for the bar that the mark is on giving you a page with a single bar on it. 

I presume it's done this way for compatibility with the other uses of the Boundary Object, which always affect only the bar they are in and succeeding bars. However, it would seem possible to change this behavior if the BO is the last item on its staff. Perhaps this is something Eric could consider.

Re: Staff justification

Reply #14 –
Welcome to the forum, Mike. You touch an area without easy answers. Professionally printed music does not always handle this well.
 
Quote from: MikeA –
<is there> a simpler way of justifying the staff lengths so that a printed piece will always have the final bar to the right of the page?
No, it is still as confounding as ever. NWC 2.51 (still in beta testing) has some changes to Print Preview that helps me make more sensible decisions in this area, but it is still subjective.

Quote from: MikeA –
I can see that the use of the spacer tool could also be used, but this will also just introduce another permutation.
I find the Spacer to be superior to changing the margins. I would never change System Metrics to get a better looking last system.

Quote from: MikeA –
Maybe I'm missing something obvious?
As others have written, the SysBreak property of either the Bar or Boundary object can be helpful.
Quote from: Richard Woodroffe –
but what I find annoying is that even if you use the "end bracket" method, you still need to have inserted an additional bar line before the final bar line - Otherwise it forces a new system for the bar that the mark is on giving you a page with a single bar on it.
Set each staff to 'Ending Bar: Open (hidden)'
I just set it once and clone the staves I need. I have ceased to be annoyed :)
Registered user since 1996
 

Re: Staff justification

Reply #15 –
Quote
I just set it once and clone the staves I need. I have ceased to be annoyed :)

Like my other "standard settings", I did it in all the templates, but I must remember NOT to use the default for it's not customizable...