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Key signature

What keys are those?
 

Re: Key signature

Reply #1 –
Quote from: Flurmy –
What keys are those?
"D"
The bass (F) clef is pretty obvious, but the "G" clef is not at first glance.  It is NOT a treble clef, as a treble clef puts the G on the second line, in this case the G is on the bottom line so it's a French Violin clef.  If you read it as if it were a bass clef, but at 15ma then the notes will be right.  The G is indicated by the centre of the spiral of the clef; it encircles the G location, in this case the bottom line.

The time signature is, I believe, part of a "proportion" of a mensural time signature and is equivalent to 2/2 or cut-common in modern parlance.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Key signature

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
It is NOT a treble clef,  ... the G is on the bottom line so it's a French Violin clef.
I completely overlooked that the G clef is a third below the usual for the good reason that I never heard about a "French Violin clef"!
Since it is an ancient hand engraved score, I supposed it was a mistyping (sort of). But ALL the staves with the G clef have that anomaly!

I guessed the real key should be D because of the two sharps, but I couldn't understand why.

Thank you very much, Lawrie.
Even today I learned something new...

Re: Key signature

Reply #3 –
Hey Flurmy,
was just thinking about how I'd notate this, assuming you want to maintain period authenticity...
Place a text entry using the staff symbols font containing the G (treble) clef symbol placed vertically so it looks right. 
Then put a hidden bass clef with automatic system clef disabled.
Finally put a plus 24 transposition on the staff. 

Looks right, key sigs will work out of the box and it sounds right.  The only down side is you'll have to manually copy the text clef symbol to the start of each staff (assuming the original does that).

If you want the key sigs to look right then there's a little more challenge:
place them, hide them, turn off automatic key signature.  Then place text entries with x's in them.  Placement will be a bit of a challenge and you'll need to play with justification, and maybe spacers...  And copy them to the start of each staff (still assuming the original does that)

Hang on...

OK, see the code section below.  Not perfect, but a fair approximation I reckon.
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposer(2.751)
|Editor|ActiveStaff:1|CaretIndex:15|CaretPos:-1
|SongInfo|Title:"French Violin Clef"|Author:"<Name>"|Lyricist:""|Copyright1:"Copyright © 2022 <Name>"|Copyright2:"All Rights Reserved"
|PgSetup|StaffSize:16|Zoom:10|TitlePage:Y|JustifyVertically:Y|PrintSystemSepMark:N|ExtendLastSystem:N|DurationPadding:Y|PageNumbers:0|StaffLabels:None|BarNumbers:None|StartingBar:1
|Font|Style:StaffItalic|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:10|Bold:Y|Italic:Y|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:StaffBold|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:Y|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:StaffLyric|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:7.2|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageTitleText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:24|Bold:Y|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:12|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageSmallText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User1|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User2|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User3|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User4|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User5|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User6|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|PgMargins|Left:1.27|Top:1.27|Right:1.27|Bottom:1.27|Mirror:N
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff"|Group:"Standard"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Section Close|Visible:Y|BoundaryTop:12|BoundaryBottom:12|Lines:5|Color:Default
|StaffProperties|Muted:N|Volume:127|StereoPan:64|Device:0|Channel:1
|StaffInstrument|Trans:24|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127
|Text|Text:""|Font:StaffSymbols|Pos:-6
|Clef|Type:Bass|AutoSys:N|Visibility:Never
|Key|Signature:F#,C#|Tonic:D|HideCancels:Y|AutoSys:N|Visibility:Never
|Spacer|Width:300
|Text|Text:"x"|Font:PageSmallText|Pos:2.5
|Text|Text:"x"|Font:PageSmallText|Pos:2.5|Justify:Center
|Text|Text:"x"|Font:PageSmallText|Pos:-0.5
|Text|Text:"x"|Font:PageSmallText|Pos:-0.5|Justify:Center
|Spacer|Width:100
|Text|Text:"2"|Font:PageSmallText|Scale:150|Pos:0|Wide:Y
|TimeSig|Signature:AllaBreve|Visibility:Never
|Spacer|Width:100
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposer-End
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Key signature

Reply #4 –
Is it possible those are not sharp signs, bur instead are double sharps?

Re: Key signature

Reply #5 –
Quote from: David Palmquist –
Is it possible those are not sharp signs, bur instead are double sharps?
No, these are standard sharp signs. They look like "ours", i.e. like "hash marks" #, just angled at about 45°. This was the custom way to write (or rather, engrave) them for a long time.

Edit: Attached are two examples from a famous Mozart sonata - the second image shows the beginning of Alla Turca.

H.M.

Re: Key signature

Reply #6 –
Two more quirks.

If you need a temporary accidental in a bar, today it is customary to just put it only on the first altered note. The others of that same bar are automatically altered.
In my old score, every altered note of the same bar has its accidental.

If you put a flat on a note you lower it a semitone.
Since, the score being in D, C and F are implicitly sharp, if you need a natural C od F you put a flat on it.
simple, isn't it?  ???

Re: Key signature

Reply #7 –
Quote
Quote from: David Palmquist  -  12 hours ago
Is it possible those are not sharp signs, bur instead are double sharps?
Quote
No, these are standard sharp signs. They look like "ours", i.e. like "hash marks" #, just angled at about 45
My bad.  My vision ain't what it used to be, and I thought I was looking at more than two lines in each direction in each sharp sign. Thanks for the followup and the additional examples.