any tricks for tied note decrecendo or crescendo?

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any tricks for tied note decrecendo or crescendo?

2021-02-24 03:16 pm

I'd like to have volume changing throughout a tied phrase over a number of bars. I can't seem to get it to work. Have I missed a trick or work around solution?

Re: any tricks for tied note decrecendo or crescendo?

Reply #1 – 2021-02-24 03:49 pm

You need a "multi-point controller". I have added an example; you might want "linear sweep" instead of "absolute", and it will typically - of course? - not work for piano, but only for instruments that actually can change their volume within a longer note.

The whole thing is a PITA; I have written a user object "Envelope.hmm" that dreams of a simple handling of MIDI controllers - volume being one of them.
But the plugin itself, and the problems subsequent synthesizers might have with rendering the resulting MIDI number stream, makes this more of a challenge than I'd like ...

H.M.

Re: any tricks for tied note decrecendo or crescendo?

Reply #2 – 2021-02-24 07:08 pm

There is an alternative:

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposer(2.751)
|Editor|ActiveStaff:1|CaretIndex:8|CaretPos:2
|SongInfo|Title:""|Author:"<Name>"|Lyricist:""|Copyright1:"Copyright © 2018 <Name>"|Copyright2:"All Rights Reserved"
|PgSetup|StaffSize:16|Zoom:4|TitlePage:Y|JustifyVertically:Y|PrintSystemSepMark:N|ExtendLastSystem:N|DurationPadding:Y|PageNumbers:0|StaffLabels:None|BarNumbers:None|StartingBar:1
|Font|Style:StaffItalic|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:10|Bold:Y|Italic:Y|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:StaffBold|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:Y|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:StaffLyric|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:7.2|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageTitleText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:24|Bold:Y|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:12|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageSmallText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User1|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User2|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User3|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User4|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User5|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User6|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|PgMargins|Left:1.27|Top:1.27|Right:1.27|Bottom:1.27|Mirror:N
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff"|Group:"Standard"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Section Close|Visible:Y|BoundaryTop:12|BoundaryBottom:12|Lines:5|Color:Default
|StaffProperties|Muted:N|Volume:127|StereoPan:64|Device:0|Channel:1
|StaffInstrument|Name:"Trumpet"|Patch:56|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:C|Tonic:C
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Tempo|Tempo:30|Pos:7.5
|Dynamic|Style:mp|Opts:Velocity=127,Volume=60|Pos:-8|Wide:Y
|Spacer|Width:75
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0|Opts:Crescendo
|Dynamic|Style:f|Opts:Velocity=127,Volume=92|Pos:-8
!NoteWorthyComposer-End

Re: any tricks for tied note decrecendo or crescendo?

Reply #3 – 2021-02-24 08:27 pm

"facepalm" - of course! Well, I just forgot this straightforward, simple behaviour of NWC. Sorry for thinking too roundabout ...

H.M.

Re: any tricks for tied note decrecendo or crescendo?

Reply #4 – 2021-03-12 03:45 pm

Will this work on a note that is tied? The second example is just a whole note, but I need to descrendo over several measures of a tied note.

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.751,Single)
|Dynamic|Style:mf|Pos:10|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:8th,Dotted|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:-4^
|Text|Text:"decres."|Font:StaffItalic|Pos:8
|Bar
|Dynamic|Style:mp|Pos:10|Placement:AtNextNote|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Half,Dotted|Pos:-4^
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half,Dotted|Pos:-4^|Opts:Diminuendo
|Bar
|Dynamic|Style:p|Pos:10.5|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:Half,Dotted|Pos:-4
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Re: any tricks for tied note decrecendo or crescendo?

Reply #5 – 2021-03-12 09:09 pm

Yes, why not?
It operates on the volume MPC.

Re: any tricks for tied note decrecendo or crescendo?

Reply #6 – 2021-03-12 11:02 pm

This was my test, it seemed OK. I specified both volume and velocity.

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposer(2.751)
|Editor|ActiveStaff:1|CaretIndex:2|CaretPos:0
|SongInfo|Title:""|Author:"<Name>"|Lyricist:""|Copyright1:"Copyright © 2021 <Name>"|Copyright2:"All Rights Reserved"
|PgSetup|StaffSize:16|Zoom:5|TitlePage:Y|JustifyVertically:Y|PrintSystemSepMark:N|ExtendLastSystem:N|DurationPadding:Y|PageNumbers:0|StaffLabels:None|BarNumbers:None|StartingBar:1
|Font|Style:StaffItalic|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:10|Bold:Y|Italic:Y|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:StaffBold|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:Y|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:StaffLyric|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:7.2|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageTitleText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:24|Bold:Y|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:12|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageSmallText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User1|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User2|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User3|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User4|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User5|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User6|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|PgMargins|Left:1.27|Top:1.27|Right:1.27|Bottom:1.27|Mirror:N
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff"|Group:"Standard"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Section Close|Visible:Y|BoundaryTop:12|BoundaryBottom:12|Lines:5|Color:Default
|StaffProperties|Muted:N|Volume:127|StereoPan:64|Device:0|Channel:1
|StaffInstrument|Name:"Violin"|Patch:40|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:F#,C#|Tonic:D
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Dynamic|Style:ppp|Opts:Velocity=127,Volume=10|Pos:-8
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:1^|Opts:Crescendo
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:1^|Opts:Crescendo
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:1^|Opts:Crescendo
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:1^|Opts:Crescendo
|Bar
|Dynamic|Style:fff|Opts:Velocity=127,Volume=127|Pos:-8
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:1
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff-1"|Group:"Standard"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Section Close|Visible:Y|BoundaryTop:10|BoundaryBottom:10|Lines:5|Color:Default
|StaffProperties|Muted:N|Volume:127|StereoPan:64|Device:0|Channel:2
|StaffInstrument|Name:"Viola"|Patch:41|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:F#,C#|Tonic:D
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Dynamic|Style:fff|Opts:Velocity=127,Volume=127|Pos:-8
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:1^|Opts:Diminuendo
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:1^|Opts:Diminuendo
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:1^|Opts:Diminuendo
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:1^|Opts:Diminuendo
|Bar
|Dynamic|Style:ppp|Opts:Velocity=127,Volume=10|Pos:-8
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:1
!NoteWorthyComposer-End

Edited: This doesn't work with percussion, only on instruments requiring a moving bow or stream of air.

Re: any tricks for tied note decrecendo or crescendo?

Reply #7 – 2021-03-13 02:07 am

Quote from: Warren Porter – 2021-03-12 11:02 pm

This was my test, it seemed OK. I specified both volume and velocity.
<snip>
Edited: This doesn't work with percussion, only on instruments requiring a moving bow or stream of air.

To confirm Warren's point, it shouldn't work on any instrument played in a percussive fashion. The obvious is the percussion section, but also Piano, Harp, Harpsicord...
Could be emulated on things like Vibraphone where long notes are often played as tremolos, there successive strikes can be harder or softer...

Re: any tricks for tied note decrecendo or crescendo?

Reply #8 – 2021-03-13 01:59 pm

Well, no, it works also for percussions but, of course, the "natural" decay masks it.
Perhaps more interesting: since it operates on channel volume, if you have other staves on the same channel they all share the same dynamic.

Re: any tricks for tied note decrecendo or crescendo?

Reply #9 – 2021-03-13 02:31 pm

Quote from: Flurmy – 2021-03-13 01:59 pm

Well, no, it works also for percussions but, of course, the "natural" decay masks it.
Perhaps more interesting: since it operates on channel volume, if you have other staves on the same channel they all share the same dynamic.

I stand corrected, because it's channel volume it does work for percussion, but it shouldn't if the playback is to be realistic. This is because we have to use trickery

Re: any tricks for tied note decrecendo or crescendo?

Reply #10 – 2021-03-13 03:44 pm

Well, in theory, there are applications where you might want to have a percussion crescendo/decrescendo. For example, a drum roll that you want to get gradually louder or softer. However, those are basically tremolos, like Lawrie's vibraphone example above, and are outside of the "tied note crescendo" original question.

Re: any tricks for tied note decrecendo or crescendo?

Reply #11 – 2021-03-15 01:04 am

Success! Thank you for your help.

Re: any tricks for tied note decrecendo or crescendo?

Reply #12 – 2021-03-15 09:13 am

I'm surprised nobody suggested using the multipoint controller "Expression".
Using this saves having to change default Volume or velocity settings.

Re: any tricks for tied note decrecendo or crescendo?

Reply #13 – 2021-03-15 10:21 am

Quote from: GrahamH – 2021-03-15 09:13 am

I'm surprised nobody suggested using the multipoint controller "Expression".
Using this saves having to change default Volume or velocity settings.

Hey Graham, you are correct

For a (de)crescendo on a sustained note, velocity is ineffective.
A volume MPC works as does an expression MPC. Personally I rarely bother with making the sound work with this construct as my personal requirements are primarily the printed output, not the audio. As a result I often forget about the expression controller.

Re: any tricks for tied note decrecendo or crescendo?

Reply #14 – 2021-03-15 08:38 pm

Yes, Graham, you're right.
Indeed I regularily use the "expression" controller to leave the "volume" for an easy mixing control.
But, alas, as you can see NWC operates more easily on volume.
N.B. Using MPC you have to select how often and whith which step to send MPC messages on MIDI and this is a bit annoying.