A wish: Configuring MIDI playing length of notes

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A wish: Configuring MIDI playing length of notes

2017-01-07 03:53 pm

Problem: (Learning) arranging for brass band. I need articulations for two purposes:

listening to the result (which is of course always an approximation; but it should come close to reality)
printing the score (voices and full score)

However, the playing lengths I get from NWC are not what a (German) brass band would do with the articulation signs: non-slurred notes are played somewhat shorter; the "tenuto" bar is interpreted as a "portato", which means that notes are taken shorter than if non-marked ("between a staccato and a legato"); and the "marcato mark" implicitly is a shortening to a "not too short staccato".

As far as I know, NWC uses the articulations to multiply the note length by some factor - for staccato it's 0.75, for others longer than that. Now, it would be great if one could, in the options, specify the factors for "no sign" and all the various articulations, and maybe also for some important combinations (dot+slur is common); and that, moreover, that "shortening" factor could also be overridden per note (if a note is played, in some context, differently from what the naked sign means).

(Edit: Special wish: It should be possible to assign a separate factor to "Last note under slur", as it is quite common that such notes have an assumed (not too short) staccato dot on them).

If my model (that every note is simply shortened by a factor, without taking into account the note's context) is too simplistic, then maybe still one or two numbers per articulation (and special cases like last under slur; and combinations) could be provided to control that more complicated formula that says when the NOTE OFF occurs ...

Harald

Re: A wish: Configuring MIDI playing length of notes

Reply #1 – 2017-01-08 10:40 am

Try marking the passage as legato.

Re: A wish: Configuring MIDI playing length of notes

Reply #2 – 2017-01-08 11:26 am

Mhm. This (a) has essentially the opposite effect (NWC likes to bind notes anyway together; our brass band music has a tendency to shortening notes without being marked as such); (b) does not help with for fine-grained control of single notes.

But what you say essentially is "override the playing of the visible articulations with hidden additions of 'performance style' legato, tenuto, or staccato" - and yes, this is something I have not yet tried. It might help at many places ... although adding a hidden "staccato" at many slur ends will be awkward ... another tool I'd need, probably ..

Thanks!
H.M.

-----------------

... I tried it: Unfortunately, for the most important modification, namely interpreting the bars which NWC calls "tenuto" as "portato" (i.e., there should be distinct gaps between the notes played), not even adding a performance style of "staccato" shortens the notes in any way. I'll still try all the other combinations of signs and styles ...

Regards
H.M.

Re: A wish: Configuring MIDI playing length of notes

Reply #3 – 2017-01-08 12:12 pm

If you were not already aware, the Marker object (inserted by typing @) can be used to hide articulations on the following note. Check just the Articulations box, and set the marker's visibility to Never. Once you have configured one of these markers, just copy it in front of all staccato notes where you want to hide the articulation.

Re: A wish: Configuring MIDI playing length of notes

Reply #4 – 2017-01-08 12:26 pm

I was not aware ... thank you!! (that marker object has somehow not yet really arrived in my brain ...).

I'm not sure it solves my problem, though, or at least solves it easily: For the portato, the best approximation is a slur with a staccato dot (which reduces the length by 1/8 of the full note length). So what I would need is a note where

the portato bar is shown, but does not do anything
a hidden slur + staccato dot do "the dirty work" of length determination

Of course, I can now add the bar as a text moved to the suitable position; or - better - take the text of the playing staff (which has dot + slur) and run it through a script that replaces each such combination with a bar ...

For context, I do have separate staffs for playing and scoring. But almost all of the work happens in the playing staffs (the composing/arranging/instrumenting), and I want to already write into these staffs most of the signs that will appear in the final score. Reason: The step playing staff-->score staff is then a quite mechanical process (mostly doing the necessary transpositions), because this step will, I found, be done a few times (I "repair" the arrangement later not too rarely).

So essentially and in attempt to sum up:
a) Of course, what I need can be done by enough manual work;
b) With the help of some simple copying tools, it would probably be so easy that the problem counts as "solved" - be it with the help of markers, performancs styles, and/or additional rewrites.
c) Still, I think that NWC should have that feature of configuring (somewhat) how playing lengths are computed ...

H.M.

Re: A wish: Configuring MIDI playing length of notes

Reply #5 – 2017-01-08 01:10 pm

Hello again Harald,

I have re-read your messages, and another thing occurs to me that you may not have yet tried: putting multiple articulations on the same note. For example:

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.75,Single)
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccato|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccatissimo|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th,Tenuto|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccato,Tenuto|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccatissimo,Tenuto|Pos:0
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Not all combinations of articulations can be composed, but the above should represent the combos that affect duration.

I don't have a MIDI analyzer on my system, but I am pretty sure that each of the above notes has a slightly different duration.

Re: A wish: Configuring MIDI playing length of notes

Reply #6 – 2017-01-08 02:18 pm

Quote from: Mike Shawaluk – 2017-01-08 01:10 pm

I don't have a MIDI analyzer on my system

It might report this:

Quote

0 On ch=1 n=71 v=110
73 On ch=1 n=71 v=0
192 On ch=1 n=71 v=110
246 On ch=1 n=71 v=0
384 On ch=1 n=71 v=116
576 On ch=1 n=71 v=0
576 On ch=1 n=71 v=116
701 On ch=1 n=71 v=0
768 On ch=1 n=71 v=116
864 On ch=1 n=71 v=0

Re: A wish: Configuring MIDI playing length of notes

Reply #7 – 2017-01-08 02:57 pm

Quote from: Rick G. – 2017-01-08 02:18 pm

It might report this:

Thanks very much. That gives the following durations:

Articulations	Duration
Staccato	73
Staccatissimo	54
Tenuto	192
Staccato+Tenuto	125
Staccatissimo+Tenuto	96

Interestingly, the plain staccato/staccatissimo notes are a bit softer (velocity = 110) compared to notes with tenuto applied (velocity = 116)

Re: A wish: Configuring MIDI playing length of notes

Reply #8 – 2017-01-08 03:15 pm

Quote from: Mike Shawaluk – 2017-01-08 02:57 pm

Interestingly, the plain staccato/staccatissimo notes are a bit softer (velocity = 110) compared to notes with tenuto applied (velocity = 116)

It wasn't always like that. Tenuto used to be an articulation of duration, not force. Now it is both.

Re: A wish: Configuring MIDI playing length of notes

Reply #9 – 2017-01-08 06:24 pm

Thanks a lot all ... and there are many more combinations, namely (a) with a slur [for the past 15 years, I have used slur+staccato to reasonably simulate the sound of my crank organ, with an Ocarina sound]; and (b) with the performance styles. Would be interesting to have the complete table from all combinations to lengths ...

H.M.

Re: A wish: Configuring MIDI playing length of notes

Reply #10 – 2017-01-08 08:34 pm

I was curious to know those coefficients, but I was too lazy to experiment.
Thanks, mates.

Re: A wish: Configuring MIDI playing length of notes

Reply #11 – 2017-01-08 10:09 pm

Quote from: hmmueller – 2017-01-08 06:24 pm

Would be interesting to have the complete table from all combinations to lengths ...

Here are a few to chew on ...

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposer(2.75)
|SongInfo|Title:"2.75 Beta 9"
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Open (hidden)|BoundaryBottom:16
|Lyrics|Align:Standard Rules
|Lyric1|Text:"54 73 96 125 160 192\n35 54 77 77 106 191\n73 92 192 115 144 192\n"
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccatissimo|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccato|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccatissimo,Tenuto|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccato,Tenuto|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th,Tenuto|Pos:0
|Bar
|PerformanceStyle|Style:Staccato|Pos:8
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccatissimo|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccato|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccatissimo,Tenuto|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccato,Tenuto|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th,Tenuto|Pos:0
|Bar
|PerformanceStyle|Style:Legato|Pos:8
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccatissimo|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccato|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccatissimo,Tenuto|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccato,Tenuto|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th,Tenuto|Pos:0
|Bar
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff-2"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Open (hidden)|BoundaryBottom:16
|Lyrics|Align:Standard Rules
|Lyric1|Text:"96 125 192 96 125 192\n77 106 191 77 106 192\n115 144 192 115 114 192\n"
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccatissimo,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Lyric=Always
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccato,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Lyric=Always
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Lyric=Always
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccatissimo,Tenuto,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Lyric=Always
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccato,Tenuto,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Lyric=Always
|Note|Dur:4th,Tenuto,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Lyric=Always
|Bar
|PerformanceStyle|Style:Staccato|Pos:8
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccatissimo,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Lyric=Always
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccato,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Lyric=Always
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Lyric=Always
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccatissimo,Tenuto,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Lyric=Always
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccato,Tenuto,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Lyric=Always
|Note|Dur:4th,Tenuto,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Lyric=Always
|Bar
|PerformanceStyle|Style:Legato|Pos:8
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccatissimo,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Lyric=Always
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccato,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Lyric=Always
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Lyric=Always
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccatissimo,Tenuto,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Lyric=Always
|Note|Dur:4th,Staccato,Tenuto,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Lyric=Always
|Note|Dur:4th,Tenuto,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Lyric=Always
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposer-End

Re: A wish: Configuring MIDI playing length of notes

Reply #12 – 2017-01-09 06:52 pm

Thank you!! ... I have to think now how to incorporate this into my instrumentation process ...

H.M.