Encoding notes of different lengths

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Encoding notes of different lengths

2015-06-07 07:42 pm

I see a lot of NWC files that appear as they do in published form. How does one encode two or more notes together when they are different length? I can make them all the shortest length and tie them the together to accomplish this, but I would prefer the alternative more traditional notation.

For example say I have a measure with a half note C and a quarter note E and two eight notes F and G all to be played with two beats (the quarter and eighth notes are on the stop of the half note. The files I see are not different staves layered together, but encoded that way in a single staff.

There is a discussion of chords in the user manual, but this are not really chords, but multiple notes of different lengths played together. This method is prevalent, but I don’t how to duplicate it.

Re: Encoding notes of different lengths

Reply #1 – 2015-06-07 08:02 pm

Quote from: lew.myrick – 2015-06-07 07:42 pm

I see a lot of NWC files that appear as they do in published form. How does one encode two or more notes together when they are different length? I can make them all the shortest length and tie them the together to accomplish this, but I would prefer the alternative more traditional notation.

For example say I have a measure with a half note C and a quarter note E and two eight notes F and G all to be played with two beats (the quarter and eighth notes are on the stop of the half note. The files I see are not different staves layered together, but encoded that way in a single staff.

There is a discussion of chords in the user manual, but this are not really chords, but multiple notes of different lengths played together. This method is prevalent, but I don’t how to duplicate it.

Is this what you were describing?

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.51,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up|Dur2:Half|Pos2:-6
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

(I've also attached a screen shot image.)

NWC calls these "split-stem chords". They are discussed in the help file under Chord Member Command. However, this might be what you described seeing in the help file. If you are talking about something different that what I created, can you paste an example?

Thanks,
Mike

Re: Encoding notes of different lengths

Reply #2 – 2015-06-07 09:00 pm

Thanks MIke, your example is precisely what I was trying to achieve. However the clip you attached is complicated to to decipher. I;m referring to the bit that starts out "Code: (nwc) [Select] and so forth. How do I include this in my NWC file?

I encode notes and chords by moving the cursor to the keyboard at the bottom of the NWC screen, then depress the mouse key to enter the note, and depress the left mouse and hold it while I move the cursor to the next note and add it to the chord with the right click of the mouse. I can enter the notes and chords quite quickly. Does NWC store as codes similar to your clip example?

To do it my way, I have to set the length of the note(s) by first clicking on the duration icon in the tool bar. I generally enter a string of notes/chords of the shortest or most prevalent duration, then go back and edit the durations that differ from the ones I first entered. There is no easy way I can find to do splitstemchords. My methods produces the correct notes when played back, but the score looks messy as hell. Still tying the notes together works for me and it's a fast way to transcribe a piece of music into an NWC file.

Is there a macro language that goes along with NWC? Is that what you are describing in your example?

Re: Encoding notes of different lengths

Reply #3 – 2015-06-07 10:32 pm

Quote from: lew.myrick – 2015-06-07 09:00 pm

Thanks MIke, your example is precisely what I was trying to achieve. However the clip you attached is complicated to to decipher. I;m referring to the bit that starts out "Code: (nwc) [Select] and so forth. How do I include this in my NWC file?

The Code section is actually just the NWC clipboard. When you Copy (Ctrl-C) a series of notes or items in NWC, it puts them in the clipboard in a sort of text format, that is called "nwctxt". You can paste this into a text editor, or in the forum, or anywhere that text can be entered. To paste this "code" back into NWC, do this:

Click the "Select" link. This will highlight the contents of the Code window.
Press Ctrl-C to copy it to your clipboard.
With NWC running, either paste it into a score you have open, or alternately do Edit -> Paste as New File. This will create a new score with the copied clip.

Quote from: lew.myrick – 2015-06-07 09:00 pm

I encode notes and chords by moving the cursor to the keyboard at the bottom of the NWC screen, then depress the mouse key to enter the note, and depress the left mouse and hold it while I move the cursor to the next note and add it to the chord with the right click of the mouse. I can enter the notes and chords quite quickly. Does NWC store as codes similar to your clip example?

To do it my way, I have to set the length of the note(s) by first clicking on the duration icon in the tool bar. I generally enter a string of notes/chords of the shortest or most prevalent duration, then go back and edit the durations that differ from the ones I first entered. There is no easy way I can find to do splitstemchords. My methods produces the correct notes when played back, but the score looks messy as hell. Still tying the notes together works for me and it's a fast way to transcribe a piece of music into an NWC file.

Is there a macro language that goes along with NWC? Is that what you are describing in your example?

As I mentioned above, this isn't really a "macro language"; it's just copy and paste, a way to easily share snippets of a score here in the forum. I notice you are using the piano keyboard to enter your notes. I don't use that for note entry, so I'm not sure if it can be used to create a split stem chord. Following is how I created the sequence in my previous message:

Press 2 (to select half note duration), then use the arrow keys to position the cursor on middle C, and press Enter. This adds the half note.
Press 3 (to select quarter note duration), then move the cursor up 2 positions (to E). Then press Ctrl-Enter. This adds the E and makes the split stem chord. Notice that when you do this, the stem on the C will flip downward.
Press 4 (to select eighth note duration), and move up one position (to F), press Enter, move up again (to G) and press Enter. Highlight the two eighth notes and beam them so they look pretty

One you get used to entering notes via the keyboard, I think it's a lot quicker for score entry than using the mouse and piano keyboard. This is just my opinion.

Mike

Re: Encoding notes of different lengths

Reply #4 – 2015-06-08 01:37 am

Re: Encoding notes of different lengths

Reply #5 – 2015-06-08 01:57 am

Quote from: lew.myrick – 2015-06-08 01:37 am

Here is an example of how I do it, even though it's very messy looking. However, I'm aiming for the end result midi file and not the publication of the score.

This will get you the same MIDI output with less mess:

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:2,4^|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:2,4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:0,4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-4^,n5|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-4,7|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-1,6^|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-2,6|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-3,6^|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-5,6|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-4,5|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Re: Encoding notes of different lengths

Reply #6 – 2015-06-08 06:57 am

Quote from: Mike Shawaluk – 2015-06-07 10:32 pm

I notice you are using the piano keyboard to enter your notes. I don't use that for note entry, so I'm not sure if it can be used to create a split stem chord.

To create a chord using the virtual keyboard, you have to :

Left click the keyboard on the note you want but do not release the left mouse button.
Then whilst holding down the left mouse button click the additional notes in the chord with the right mouse button.

When you have completed the chord you want, release both mouse buttons.

However, creating a split stem chord with the virtual keyboard, I don't think is possible.

Re: Encoding notes of different lengths

Reply #7 – 2015-06-08 06:06 pm

.. or, IMHO, even better:

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.51,Single)
|Chord|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Upward,Beam=First|Dur2:8th|Pos2:4
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Dur2:4th|Pos2:4
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End|Dur2:8th|Pos2:4
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:n5|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Dur2:4th|Pos2:-4
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:7|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First|Dur2:Half|Pos2:6
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First|Dur2:4th,Dotted|Pos2:6
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-5|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End|Dur2:8th|Pos2:5
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Re: Encoding notes of different lengths

Reply #8 – 2015-06-08 06:42 pm

   Hi, Lew.

   If you persevere with it, I think you'll find that entering the notes from the (computer) keyboard rather than using the mouse is by far the quickest and simplest way. The "secret" lies in making full use of the numeric pad on the right of the keyboard - and I'm assuming that, like me, you're right handed. With Num Lock off, and coupled (with the left hand) with the (left) Ctrl and Shift keys, the keys in this pad do almost every conventional thing you'll ever need to do - moving up and down and back and forth with the 2,4,8,6 arrow keys and the Pg Up/Dn keys, flipping tails, affixing ties (with the slash). Best of all, the plus and minus keys increase or decrease the length of the note next to be entered, so "++", for instance, doubles and then re-doubles whatever value the note had when you started, and "---" halves, re-halves and halves again the note value.

   With your right hand resting on the desk adjust the right-hand corner of the keyboard, you can reach all the pad keys in a manner which soon becomes a simple touch-typing affair. And you can reserve mouse use for making large sweeping movements over the screen, as for selecting a long line of notes or moving around from one side or staff to another.

   So going back to your original problem; there are many ways/sequences of keystrokes to key in the notes to achieve what you want, but here's one.

   Imagine you're starting with an empty staff. Noteworthy will open the score with the cursor sitting on the central line, and if - but don't! - you press the "Enter" key will put in the default starting value, a crotchet with its tail down.
   First, then, enter 4 line-downs (the pad 2/down arrow), then hit "Enter". You'll enter a crotchet (automatically tail-up) on the bottom line.
   Then enter 2 line-downs, hit the "+" key once, and then hit "Ctrl Enter"; Noteworthy will insert the minim, tail-down, under the crotchet.
   Then enter 2 line-ups (the pad 8/up arrow), hit the "-" twice, and "Enter", and there's the first quaver in place.
   Next, enter one line-up, and hit "Enter" again, and there's the second quaver.
   Finally, do 2 Shift line-lefts (the pad 4/left arrow), to select the two quavers, followed by Ctrl B to beam them (you can reach Ctrl B with your left hand little and index fingers).

   As an alternative, you can enter the minim first - from the initial "empty staff, default crotchet" position enter 6 line-downs, a single "+", a Shifted line down (that forces Noteworthy to enter the next note tail-down; Shifted line-up would force a tail-up entry), and "Enter".

   Then to add the crotchet, 2 line ups, a single "-", a Shifted line-down (that cancels the tail-up, and thus toggles back to the default; a Shifter line-up would have made the next note tail-up, and all following notes, which you might not want), and "Ctrl Enter".

   And then a single "-", a line-up, and "Enter" for the first quaver,

   and a single line-up and "Enter" for the second quaver.

   Incidentally, if you want two same-value notes - two crotchets, say - to sit one above the other but with the tails in opposite directions, then you must force each tail. And no, you can't have the upper note tail-down while the lower note is tail-up unless you achieve this using layering.

   Persevere. It'll come quite easily after a bit. I know! I've done lots and lots and lots of them.

   MusicJohn, 8/Jun/15

Re: Encoding notes of different lengths

Reply #9 – 2015-06-08 08:50 pm

Quote from: MusicJohn – 2015-06-08 06:42 pm

Incidentally, if you want two same-value notes - two crotchets, say - to sit one above the other but with the tails in opposite directions, then you must force each tail.

That has not been my experience. If you haven't explicitly set the stem direction (or, if you press Shift-Up or Shift-Down until neither of the stem direction buttons are lit), you can just press Enter followed by Ctrl-Enter to set the same note with stems in both directions.

Re: Encoding notes of different lengths

Reply #10 – 2015-06-08 09:54 pm

Thanks Mike, John, and Rich for your help and tutorial(!). I bought NWC1.75 several years back, and am now learning the marvels of the new beta version that (finally!) supports NRPNs that our organ uses.

I've transcribed about 1500 hymns using the mouse and virtual keyboard, so I have some habits to break to use your preferred method. But later this summer when the lulls set in, I'll give it the ole college try and try to convert to your methods.

Have you all ever thought about a tutorial beyond what Noteworthy attaches to their software? I've learned more in the forum than ever from one of the manuals. It's been invaluable, and I appreciate it sincerely.

Lew M.

Re: Encoding notes of different lengths

Reply #11 – 2015-06-08 11:21 pm

Quote from: lew.myrick – 2015-06-08 09:54 pm

Have you all ever thought about a tutorial beyond what Noteworthy attaches to their software

Scriptorium Explanations
NoteWorthy Composer 2.51 Guides

Re: Encoding notes of different lengths

Reply #12 – 2015-06-09 07:43 am

Hi, Mike.

That's fine for one note on top of the other, but for one note above the other you need to force the tails.

MusicJohn, 9/Jun/15

By the way: where does your dead crab "sign-off" come from? When I google it Google reveals that in Monty Python's "Whizzo butter" sketch it was actually "10% more or less" - at least, that's what most of the hits say. [:-)]

Re: Encoding notes of different lengths

Reply #13 – 2015-06-09 07:46 am

Quote from: MusicJohn – 2015-06-09 07:43 am

That's fine for one note on top of the other, but for one note above the other you need to force the tails.

~~Wrong again.~~

Re: Encoding notes of different lengths

Reply #14 – 2015-06-09 09:37 am

Hi, Rick.

Wrong again? Not the way I'm looking at it. I am unable to get two same-value notes one above the other with tails in opposite directions without forcing them.

So ... what aren't I doing right?

MusicJohn, 9/Jun/15

Re: Encoding notes of different lengths

Reply #15 – 2015-06-09 10:14 am

Quote from: MusicJohn – 2015-06-09 09:37 am

Hi, Rick.

Wrong again? Not the way I'm looking at it. I am unable to get two same-value notes one above the other with tails in opposite directions without forcing them.

So ... what aren't I doing right?

MusicJohn, 9/Jun/15

I think I see what you are saying. For example, if you want a split stem chord where both notes are quavers (quarter notes), and the upper note is a C and the lower note is an A (with a treble clef in effect), you will generally have to force the stem directions for each note, otherwise you'll get a normal chord.

(Edit: All this controversy on my signature has convinced me it's time to change it. Let's see who can recognise where this one is from. No fair googling.)

Re: Encoding notes of different lengths

Reply #16 – 2015-06-09 11:21 am

Hi again, Mike.

   Yes, exactement. I shall be interested to see what Rick says. He's always good value.

   As to dead crabs, I looked at http://www.montypython.net/scripts/whizbutt.php

   MusicJohn, 9/Jun/15

Re: Encoding notes of different lengths

Reply #17 – 2015-06-09 05:47 pm

Quote from: MusicJohn – 2015-06-09 11:21 am

exactement. I shall be interested to see what Rick says.

Rick says that he read too quickly and is sorry. The topic has been about "Encoding notes of different lengths" and my mind had difficulty comprehending why someone would want a split chord with equal duration voices.

Re: Encoding notes of different lengths

Reply #18 – 2015-06-10 12:19 pm

Mike,

Re your signature,

Not what I would consider obscure, but then they've been my favourite band since university:

Moody Blues 'Higher and Higher'

Stephen

Re: Encoding notes of different lengths

Reply #19 – 2018-06-27 02:59 pm

Hi, Lew.

Tell me; did you ever persevere with my suggestion - almost exactly 3 years ago - of note entry using not the mouse but instead effectively only the number pad and the right-hand + and - keys, plus a bit of left-handed Control and Shift work? It's really very fast when you get used to it!

MusicJohn, 27/Jun/18

Re: Encoding notes of different lengths

Reply #20 – 2018-06-28 01:51 am

Stuck in a rut I guess. I tried your method, but I couldn't get any speed on it. My method looks messy, but it works for me fast because I learned NWC with the keyboard and mouse Older users use the orginal method and have become proficient with it. I do my transcriptions without any intention of publication, rather I concentrated on the MIDI file output. My method may not look good to the purist, but I've learned to do it fairly quickly. Mostly I transcribe 4 part tunes out of the hymnbook, and sometimes when I have time do Bach transcriptions and such for the organ -- preludes and postludes. No one ever sees the score, but everyone hears the MIDI file on our organ. Thanks for your tutorial, but I use NWC less and less now that we have a pretty large data base of music we use in Eucharist services.

Again, I am on the forum rarely now, but I am exceedingly grateful for it, and for the contributors and experts who give time and talent to those who need advice. Thank you very much for your help.