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Topic: Lyric Syllables Extend Past Bar Lines (Read 5564 times) previous topic - next topic

Lyric Syllables Extend Past Bar Lines

After updating to NWC version 2.51a, I notice the last lyric syllable in a measure now extends beyond the bar line. In other words, the bar line's horizontal position is before the end of the last lyric syllable in the measure. This is especially noticeable when the refrain starts, when the other lyrics extend into the refrain area, creating a very unprofessional appearance, especially in the printed score. I know I can prefix the refrain lyrics with underscores, but then the start of the refrain lyrics is no longer left aligned with the first note of the refrain.

Perhaps this is not new behavior, but I don't remember seeing it before. Is there something I'm missing here? I didn't see anything on bar line properties that would cause this. Is this a new bug?

Re: Lyric Syllables Extend Past Bar Lines

Reply #1 –
Quote from: Cyber_Hymnal –
Is this a new bug?
No.

Quote from: Cyber_Hymnal –
Perhaps this is not new behavior, but I don't remember seeing it before.
The change was made to the NWC 2.51 Beta in March 2013.
NWC 2.51 was released in January 2014

Lyrics cross bars unless 'Bars Connected' is checked in Visual Staff Properties.
If, in some places, this causes problems a Spacer Command can be added.

See: What's New
Quote
New lyric syllable spacing
Registered user since 1996

Re: Lyric Syllables Extend Past Bar Lines

Reply #2 –
Rick covered most of this, but I wanted to add a little.

Quote from: Cyber_Hymnal –
I know I can prefix the refrain lyrics with underscores

Using underscores for lyric padding is no longer a recommended technique. The spacer is now the recommended technique for adding padding where you need it (or in some cases, to reduce padding). You can add it quickly using the Insert key.

Do you have a lot of incidents of lyric syllables spanning the next bar line? If you have examples of this, it wouldn't hurt to provide links so they can be reviewed.


Re: Lyric Syllables Extend Past Bar Lines

Reply #3 –
Vocal lyrics should not use staves with connected bar lines, so there should be no collision between a lyric syllable and a bar line.  Elaine Gould ("Behind bars"), page 439, says "If necessary the text may precede the barline": so, stylistically, there's no reason to prevent lyrics passing under barlines.

Re: Lyric Syllables Extend Past Bar Lines

Reply #4 –
Quote from: NoteWorthy Online –
Rick covered most of this, but I wanted to add a little.

Using underscores for lyric padding is no longer a recommended technique. The spacer is now the recommended technique for adding padding where you need it (or in some cases, to reduce padding). You can add it quickly using the Insert key.

While we are on the subject of lyrics, perhaps I can ask a question. One thing I've missed in Noteworthy lyrics is the ability to create a melisma - the trailing underscore on a lyric that spans multiple notes. I'm sure there are workarounds to create these manually, but I was wondering if the ability to more easily create these is on the radar for a future release? (I'm guessing it's not a highly requested feature).

Re: Lyric Syllables Extend Past Bar Lines

Reply #5 –
Strictly, it's not called melismas - that's the practice of extending lyrics over more than one note.  The line is called a lyric extender.  If you really want these, Lilypond does them very nicely.

Re: Lyric Syllables Extend Past Bar Lines

Reply #6 –
Quote from: PhilHolmes –
Strictly, it's not called melismas - that's the practice of extending lyrics over more than one note.  The line is called a lyric extender.  If you really want these, Lilypond does them very nicely.

Thanks for the correction. I knew that Lilypond did these, as does MuseScore, but I am still hopeful that Noteworthy Composer will eventually gain a small number of features/enhancements that will allow me to quit using MuseScore for the majority of my choral scores. I can live without the lyric extenders, but the "slur issue" and more convenient split staff handling of beamed notes is giving MuseScore an edge these days - and yes, I know how to use layered staves and other workarounds to do this. The split staff / beam issue is simple, but slurs take a lot more work to make them look "nice". (Not saying things that haven't been said a dozen times, sorry.)

Re: Lyric Syllables Extend Past Bar Lines

Reply #7 –
Have you tried using Noteworthy with my LilyPond converter for final output using LilyPond?

Re: Lyric Syllables Extend Past Bar Lines

Reply #8 –
Quote from: PhilHolmes –
Have you tried using Noteworthy with my LilyPond converter for final output using LilyPond?

I've seen you mention it before, and thanks for mentioning that option. However, after playing around with Lilypond a bit, I've decided it's not quite my cup of tea. Very powerful and versatile, but it also has a steep learning curve (unless I just wanted to use it as an final output generator for another program's files).

I don't want to turn this into a "which program is best" thread, because obviously this is a NWC forum, and that's what I'm here to discuss. But sometimes it's useful to reference how program X implements a particular feature, as part of asking whether NWC could someday do something similar.

Thanks again,
Mike

Re: Lyric Syllables Extend Past Bar Lines

Reply #9 –
I'd agree that dropping Noteworthy and replacing it with LilyPond would be a steep learning curve.  However, my guess is that inputting a piece of music in Noteworthy and then using Lilypond as a final output medium after converting would be fairly straightforward.  Mostly I have to use no Lilypond specific coding to get excellent output.