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Topic: Any knowledgeable horn players ? (Read 4719 times) previous topic - next topic

Any knowledgeable horn players ?

Help please.

I am notating an orchestral piece that has Horns in E.

A number of the notes have a + above them.  I understand that this means to "stop" the horn by placing the hand in the Bell of the instrument which then lowers the pitch. However, some references say that it lowers the pitch and then when that hand is tight in, the pitch then rises by half a step and so the player should play a half step lower.

Other references tell me that when you do this, the pitch falls to half a step above the next lower partial harmonic.

To be fair, I don't know about this - and don't need to know.  All I want to know is that for a series of notes in the score, what notes to I have to pitch bend to given the following notes on the score : D, F and  A

Grateful for any help.


Rich.

Re: Any knowledgeable horn players ?

Reply #1 –
This is covered quite well in Elaine Gould's "Behind Bars".  Basically, she says there are 2 types of hand stopping - the first is to insert the hand fully into the bell and this raises the tone by a semitone.  The other holds the hand within the bell and produces a note a semitone lower.  She says both are notated with +.  So it would appear to be anyone's guess as to which is intended.

Re: Any knowledgeable horn players ?

Reply #2 –
Thanks Phil - I knew of that reference but didn't consider them because it was the third and fourth way of dealing with this plus sign. The main reason for ignoring it though was that these references talk about the following and proceeding notes having a o to indicate the open notes leading to the closed notes then back to the open notes again.  The score I have has no such adjacent notes and so I thought that the other references I had seen (lower the pitch to the next lower harmonic then perhaps rise a half step) were probably what I'm looking for.  This would mean that the music would fall perhaps something like a major third.

Rich.

Re: Any knowledgeable horn players ?

Reply #3 –
Hi Rich - have you listened to Benjamin Britten's Serenade for Tenor, Horn and Strings? The opening and closing horn solos in that work (which are identical) make very effective use of the second technique Phil described - the open hand in the bell to both mute the tone and lower it a half-step. They are also a superb example of writing for natural horn (the horn player is instructed to play them without valves). Dunno if this is helpful, but I thought it worth a mention, if only to get you to listen to the work.

Re: Any knowledgeable horn players ?

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Richard Woodroffe –
Help please.

I am notating an orchestral piece that has Horns in E.

A number of the notes have a + above them.  I understand that this means to "stop" the horn by placing the hand in the Bell of the instrument which then lowers the pitch. However, some references say that it lowers the pitch and then when that hand is tight in, the pitch then rises by half a step and so the player should play a half step lower.

Other references tell me that when you do this, the pitch falls to half a step above the next lower partial harmonic.

To be fair, I don't know about this - and don't need to know.  All I want to know is that for a series of notes in the score, what notes to I have to pitch bend to given the following notes on the score : D, F and  A

Grateful for any help.




I know this post is a couple of months old - but as a horn player, I'd like to chip in my two cents.
Generally, when you see the "+" sign in horn music, you take your right hand and shove it as far into the bell as possible, with your fingers at about a 90 degree angle to your palm, in an attempt to completely block off the opening in the bell.

Notation-wise, you will write the pitches exactly as you would for non-stopped notes. It's up to the player to think of the "transposition" of the note, with convention being fingering the note down a half step from what is written. So if you are wanting to hear a D, E, F, you would write D, E, F...not D#, E#, F# or Db, Eb, Fb.

In Noteworthy, for stopped horn parts, I usually just throw the "muted trumpet" patch in. It's not the perfect sound, but it gets the point across.

For double horns (F/Bb), it is generally discouraged to use the Bb side of the horn, as this may result in a 3/4 step transposition, which is difficult to get in tune. It is also difficult (but not impossible) to play stopped notes below middle C (one ledger below the treble clef). For notes in the lower register, most hornists prefer to use a stop mute for ease, such as this: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/brass-instruments/tom-crown-fh-french-horn-stop-mute.

With regards to other mutes for other brass, all mutes with the exception of the horn's stop mute are considered "non-transposing", meaning that you hear the same note with or without the mute in. The stop mute, just like hand stopping, brings the pitch up a half step.