Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Staff Position of Expression Placement in Notation Properties (Read 9464 times) previous topic - next topic

Staff Position of Expression Placement in Notation Properties

I am studying Mr Pardy's file for creating lead sheets in NWC. (leadsheetsinnwc2.pdf)


I cannot lock the staff position when setting it in the Expression Placement window of Notation Properties. If I set the staff position at 12 and then push enter to write the expression to the staff, then the staff position for the next expression reverts to 1.

Operating on Win 2000 (which I see I have to upgrade in order to use the global mod tools?)

Re: Staff Position of Expression Placement in Notation Properties

Reply #1 –
I think you need to check that Smart Properties Insert is selected. Go to Tools|Options|Editor and make sure that there is an X in that box.

Quote
Operating on Win 2000 (which I see I have to upgrade in order to use the global mod tools?)
I'm sure that the Global Mod tools work on Win2000 - You need to Upgrade from version 1.xx NWC to Version 2.xx in order to use any user tool, maybe that is the upgrade you read about.
Rich.

Re: Staff Position of Expression Placement in Notation Properties

Reply #2 –
With win2000 you must be careful for the latest version of PHP (5.3 I think), based on Visual C++ 2008 redistributable package (x86), is not guaranteed to work on win2000.

NWC2 User Tool Starter Kit Version 2.1 should be ok.

Re: Staff Position of Expression Placement in Notation Properties

Reply #3 –
G'day Dr. Mark,
Firstly, Richard is incorrect, you don't need the smart insert setting.

However, I think you may have missed a critical point in the description.  In order for the vertical position to remain correct, you do NOT set it in the dialogue, rather, you position the cursor to the correct vertical position, the when moving the cursor you merely move it horizontally, WITHOUT changing the vertical height.

The dialogue will ALWAYS change the vertical position value to match the current cursor vertical position.  This is the only parameter that may change between instances of the text insertion dialogue.

In your example, it is resetting to "1".  This means that your current cursor location when you activate the dialogue is in the "C" space of the treble staff (this is Pos=1 on the staff).

I hope I've clarified things rather than muddying the waters.

And please, I'm Lawrie - "Mr. Pardy" was me grandad 'n he's been dead for well over 50 years :)
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Staff Position of Expression Placement in Notation Properties

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
Firstly, Richard is incorrect, you don't need the smart insert setting.

Oops  -  Sorry, now you say that Lawrie, I remember us discussing that very point when we were testing this out with you.

Good job my head is screwed on or I'd forget that somewhere.
Rich.
 

Re: Staff Position of Expression Placement in Notation Properties

Reply #5 –
Based on the suggestions of y'all it was just now possible to get the Microsoft C++ 2008 to install on this Win 2000 machine running NWC 2.0; and then it was possible to get the user tool starter kit 2.0 to install!!

Then using alt-F8 the user tool window opened with about 15 choices, one of which says "Global Modification (adp)". Should that glob_mod tool be enough to run the leadsheetsinnwc2.pdf tutorial?

Re: Staff Position of Expression Placement in Notation Properties

Reply #6 –
G'day Doc,
Quote from: DR_MARK –
Then using alt-F8 the user tool window opened with about 15 choices, one of which says "Global Modification (adp)". Should that glob_mod tool be enough to run the leadsheetsinnwc2.pdf tutorial?
Yup, that should do it.

If you want, you can alter the command line by opening the user tool dialogue, clicking on the "Global Modification (adp)" entry and then clicking the "Edit" button.  In the dialogue that opens there is a "Command" field.  Go to the end of this field (it will scroll) and remove the word "help" from just before the final > sign.  This will cause the tool to remember the last command entered during the session rather than replacing it with a "help" command.  You can always manuall enter "help" if you want to display the help text.

How did you go with the vertical positioning with the text entry?
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Staff Position of Expression Placement in Notation Properties

Reply #7 –
BTW Dr Mark, I'm delighted that the lead sheet doc. is of interest to you.  Please let me know if you found it helpful.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Staff Position of Expression Placement in Notation Properties

Reply #8 –
It appears it is going to take some time & sweat to plow thru the leadsheet tutorial; but hopefully the endevour will prepare the musical fields with a  fertile soil.

Re: Staff Position of Expression Placement in Notation Properties

Reply #9 –
There is a problem here when trying to use the GlobMod user tool:

Error Msg: "The procedure point getaddinfo could not be located in the dynamic link library WS2_32.dll"

Might this problem have to do with the fact that this machine is running Win2000?
If so, Is there a possibility that it can be remedied without changing the operating system?

Re: Staff Position of Expression Placement in Notation Properties

Reply #10 –
WS32_32.dll is the WinSock library - AFAIK it's related to network communications only and so I don't see why it would be called by the PHP interpreter to run GlobalMod...

However, the current PHP interpreter may do calls to this lib. even if I don't think they make sense.  Perhaps you can locate an older version of the starter kit to tide you over until you upgrade to a new machine/OS...  Be aware that Win2k support is only going to get worse, not better.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Staff Position of Expression Placement in Notation Properties

Reply #11 –
I do have NWC loaded on an XP machine at another location; but that location does not have my music work-station. I suppose that I could do the lead-sheet part on the XP machine.

But let me ask you this: If my music piece has no lyrics, does it still make sense to set up the hidden lyric staff  so as to have better control of overall layout of the music piece, including lead-sheet chord notations?

Re: Staff Position of Expression Placement in Notation Properties

Reply #12 –
Quote from: DR_MARK –
If my music piece has no lyrics, does it still make sense to set up the hidden lyric staff  so as to have better control of overall layout of the music piece, including lead-sheet chord notations?
It makes no sense. Lyrics are a poor place to put chord notations.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Staff Position of Expression Placement in Notation Properties

Reply #13 –
The primary reason I use the layered "Lyrics" staff is so I can layer it on all the parts.

To expand that, when I prepare a piece for the band at church, the guitarists, Bass player and pianist use the main leadsheet - Vocal staff plus Lyrics staff layered.  I use a Trombone (or sometimes Trumpet or Euphonium) part that I've written (usually, sometimes we get one with the original charts in which case I'll transcribe it - with some variations of my own...) which I layer with the Lyrics part.  My wife plays a Flute part which may be the melody (in which case she uses the lead sheet) or a specific part which I've written and which is layered with lyrics staff.

Thus, we ALL have the same lyrics, chords, part markers, rehearsal marks etc. on our parts in the same places, guaranteed, without having to rewrite them for every part I arrange.  In addition, I will probably make it a practice to use the lyrics staff to extend the special ending lines over more than one bar as suggested elswhere (I tried a quick search but didn't find the post - it refers to leaving out barlines within the layered staff, making the SE's visible ALWAYS and marking the SE's on the the parts Print|Never)

So, if you're really only doing a single staff project then I agree, there is probably little benefit in separating things.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Staff Position of Expression Placement in Notation Properties

Reply #14 –
G'day Rick,
umm, I think you'll find Dr Mark was referring to my "Lyrics" STAFF in the "howto", not actually using the lyrics dialogue...
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Staff Position of Expression Placement in Notation Properties

Reply #15 –
Actually, Rick, I think using lyrics for chord names is a pretty neat idea. I don't use them that way myself, but I do try to keep chord symbols (which I enter as text objects) aligned vertically, and putting them in a lyrics line automates this, as well as lining them up nicely with the notes. Yes, they have to be moved out of alignment occasionally to dodge a bit of musical notation, but that doesn't preclude the use of lyrics. Just skip that particular chord, then put it in later as a text object using the lyrics font. The main problem I see with this - and the reason I don't do it - is that I don't like using the same font for both lyrics and chords (which I prefer to see large in relation to the lyrics). If an arranger doesn't see this as a problem, the lyrics dialogue is a very friendly place to enter chord symbols.

However it's done, I think we all agree that, in most cases, putting chord names on a separate layered staff is very helpful....for all of the reasons both you and Lawrie have described.

Bill

Re: Staff Position of Expression Placement in Notation Properties

Reply #16 –
The only 2 real downsides I see in using the lyrics feature for chords are:
a) Insufficient font flexibility
b) cannot use Andrew's Transpose Text Chords tool

The problem with needing to occasionally adjust chord height can, as Bill suggests, be worked around by using a combination, but this introduces extra complexities that can cause trouble later on if transpositions or other automated edits need to be made.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Staff Position of Expression Placement in Notation Properties

Reply #17 –
Quote from: William Ashworth –
I think using lyrics for chord names is a pretty neat idea. I don't use them that way myself,
Easy to think that, in the abstract...
Registered user since 1996

Re: Staff Position of Expression Placement in Notation Properties

Reply #18 –
On page 6 of the leadsheet pdf it says to take the E half note, (in the measure before the last),  and make it a rest-chord with a crotchet quarter rest.  How is that done?

Re: Staff Position of Expression Placement in Notation Properties

Reply #19 –
To create a restchord, first select the duration (press 3 for a crotchet/quarter) then press <space> to make the rest.  Then select the note duration (2 for a minim/half note) and press <Ctrl+Enter> to make the note part.

If you follow the instruction it ways to set the "stem direction" of the rest BEFORE placing the note.  Do this by highlighting the rest and pressing <Shift+DownArrow>.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Staff Position of Expression Placement in Notation Properties

Reply #20 –
On page 15, the leadsheetson nwc2.pdf says:

Highlight the required barline on the Vocal staff, press <Alt+Enter> to get to its properties
page, make sure the Bar Line tab is active and check “Force System Break”.

When I do this, each line only has ONE measure, (instead of e.g THREE).

Re: Staff Position of Expression Placement in Notation Properties

Reply #21 –
The key word is the "required" bar line - don't do it for all of them, only the one(s) where you want to force a system break(s) to occur.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.