A tempo

Topic: A tempo (Read 7686 times) previous topic - next topic

A tempo

2010-07-05 12:18 pm

While notating, I have often to use "a tempo" and regularily I find myself looking in "tempo variance" wondering why I can't find it.
Of course I can't find it because it's not there.
Probably the reasoning behind that absence is that it fits better as a "tempo" specifying the BPM at once.
Maybe one can possibly see it also as a "perfomance style".
Anyway, my fingers go automatically on "tempo variance"...

Re: A tempo

Reply #1 – 2010-07-05 02:41 pm

I thought I might say here how it might be implemented, in case anyone would rather see it done differently. I'd do it as a tempo variance, as you suggested. I'd look back to the last tempo before the last tempo (two tempos back), so it actually implements itself in playback, I believe, as well as displays the directive. A simple usage would be to have a Tempo A section, and then a Tempo B section, and then an "a tempo" would return to whatever tempo A was, even if tempo A were subsequently changed. A more complex usage would be to combine "a tempo" with another "true" tempo variance (i.e. something other than "a tempo", "fermata", or "break mark"):

Tempo A
...
"true" tempo variance (e.g. Ritardando)
...
Tempo B (hidden!)
"a tempo"

The hidden Tempo B gives the "true" tempo variance a "target" to shoot for, so on playback it knows how fast to slow down or speed up (and by the way, the two tempos always determine whether it slows down or speeds up, not the particular "true" tempo variance, so for example, a Ritardando can actually play back as an increase in speed!). The "a tempo" would correctly resume Tempo A in this case, after slowing down or speeding up to Tempo B.

Re: A tempo

Reply #2 – 2010-07-05 04:00 pm

Sorry - I don't find this that complicated. A text entry and a hidden tempo change take care of it. Doesn't seem worth spending much time to fix. Just my view....

Bill

Re: A tempo

Reply #3 – 2010-07-05 04:16 pm

Bill,
of course the thing is not a big problem to overcome, but I was thinking to something like many "performance styles". Think of "tutti", "sostenuto", "solo" etc. whose only function, beside showing the text, is only (AFAIK) to stop a preceding "staccato" or "legato".

By the way (I have no time to check right now): "rubato" is a true tempo variance?

Randy,
sometimes I found myself longing for something like what you propose.
It could be interesting but we need to check accurately if there are too many exceptions to the rule.
Food for though...

Re: A tempo

Reply #4 – 2010-07-05 05:19 pm

Re: A tempo

Reply #5 – 2010-07-05 10:30 pm

G'day Randy,
while my personal requirements do not often see a use for a true "a tempo" directive it is my opinion that it should be included. Thank you for your work on this, it will be useful.

Re: A tempo

Reply #6 – 2010-07-06 01:56 am

Quote from: Randy Williams – 2010-07-05 05:19 pm

I can only hope you don't object to NWC including "a tempo" someday

I don't. Ideally, a Tempo should return you to the last tempo that is not the destination of a Tempo Variance.

But before that, NWC really needs to clean up how it handles tempo. It is not a "controller", yet it is listed under Multi-point Controller Command.
If you take the 'Quartet' Template and simply add:

Quote

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Tempo|Tempo:120|Text:"Moderato"|Pos:7|Visibility:TopStaff
|TempoVariance|Style:Ritardando|Pos:-6
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

to each staff, it will generate 364 Tempo messages, yet this is not an improbable thing for a new user to try. I would think that some 'infrastructure' changes were in order before new features are added.

Re: A tempo

Reply #7 – 2010-07-06 03:32 pm

I don't object - I just don't see a need. It's such a simple kludge, and there are so many other things that need work....it's all a matter of priorities for programming time, and this one seems pretty low.

Re: A tempo

Reply #8 – 2010-07-07 01:10 am

Re: A tempo

Reply #9 – 2010-07-07 08:17 am

Quote from: Rick G. – 2010-07-06 01:56 am

Ideally, a Tempo should return you to the last tempo...

This is only one way which composers have used "a tempo." There are so many possible variations in meaning that, IMHO, I think a tempo number is required to avoid confusion.

Re: A tempo

Reply #10 – 2010-07-07 05:12 pm

Sorry, Randy, I didn't mean to be negative. What I thought I was being was practical. Time is a precious commodity, the more so as I grow older. As I said previously, I don't object to implementing a true a tempo, I just don't see the point, when there are so many things out there that need attention more than this one seems to.

And Carl is right: a tempo can mean different things. If I write it shortly after a ritardando, I mean "go back to the speed you were playing before the ritardando." If I write it at a section change, I mean "go back to the original tempo of the piece (or movement)." If I think there may be some confusion, I write tempo primo (or tempo secundo) instead of a tempo. Humans can intuit all of this, but a user-changeable MM number is the only way to make sure the proper meaning is attached to the term during computer playback. As you have pointed out yourself, this is not a simple programming job - not nearly as simple to program as it is to kludge. That's where my point of view comes from. I realize it isn't the only one.

So....please continue your work, Randy, and thank you. But please don't take our suggestions about where focus seems to be needed as negativity, only as attempts to help you set priorities.

Cheers,

Bill

Re: A tempo

Reply #11 – 2010-07-07 06:06 pm

Quote from: William Ashworth – 2010-07-07 05:12 pm

If I write it at a section change, I mean "go back to the original tempo of the piece (or movement)."

This would confuse me. I would go back to the last tempo marked on my music. I would write "Tempo Primo" or "Tempo I°" to return to some other tempo.

Alfred's says that a tempo is "Used after tempo alterations such as ritardando, accelerando, più lento or ad libitum."

NoteWorthy only supports straight line variations (accel., rit.). To work, they must have a tempo destination. IMO, a perfectly useful a tempo could rather easily programmed by saving the tempo in effect when a 'Tempo Variance' is encountered and restoring that tempo when a tempo is encountered.

Re: A tempo

Reply #12 – 2010-07-07 07:28 pm

Well, as I've said before, Alfred's is not necessarily the last word in correctness.

Here is what Westrup and Harrison have to say:

Quote

A tempo. "In time." Used to restore the normal tempo of a piece after it has been interrupted by a rallentando, allargando, a piacere, etc., or by a section marked to be played at a faster or slower speed than that indicated at the beginning of the piece.
- J. A. Westrup and F. Ll. Harrison, The New College Encyclopedia of Music (W. W. Norton, 1960).

Not necessarily the last word, either, but at least as authoritative as Alfred's. <sigh> Didn't mean to start a battle, just trying to help set priorities.

Cheers (I think) -

Bill

Re: A tempo

Reply #13 – 2010-07-07 09:01 pm

Quote from: Rick G. – 2010-07-07 06:06 pm

IMO, a perfectly useful a tempo could rather easily programmed by saving the tempo in effect when a 'Tempo Variance' is encountered and restoring that tempo when a tempo is encountered.

To satisfy Westrup and Harrison, I would add:

Quote from: Rick G. (rule 2)

If no 'Tempo Variance' is in effect then a tempo restores the first tempo encountered.

Cheers

Re: A tempo

Reply #14 – 2010-07-08 08:30 am

A simple method that would cover most of the above would be:

Look back for a tempo or tempo variance.
If the first thing found is a tempo variance then do nothing (because that variance hasn't actually changed anything)
Otherwise look further back specifically for a tempo and set the a tempo to that.

Doesn't quite cover successive tempo variances (but what would a tempo mean in that case?)

And if that's not what is required then put in the desired figure as a hidden tempo.