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Topic: help with notation please (Read 5934 times) previous topic - next topic

help with notation please

Hi. I am rather new to notation and have run into a problem.
The song I am currently working on is an ancient Lebanese Kyrie. I have three staffs. The second and third staffs are in 4/4 time. The first staff is sometimes 4/4 and sometimes not anything. I need to have the measures line up visually exactly the same, but then the rhythm in the second and third staffs is wrong. They have to stay exactly the same throughout the song. How can I get the notes to have the right values and keep the lengths of the measures the same between the three staffs?
I do a lot of various style chants and run into this problem frequently. I have some other issues with some styles and if there is anyone out there that is familiar with modern chant notation, I would love to set up a correspondence that might benefit both of us.
Thanks

Re: help with notation please

Reply #1 –
Quote from: SAABQueen7 –
The first staff is sometimes 4/4 and sometimes not anything.
It cannot be "not anything". It may be "not marked as anything", but it is still "something". You will need to figure out what it is, and make the other staves match it.
Registered user since 1996

Re: help with notation please

Reply #2 –
Quote from: SAABQueen7 –
The first staff is sometimes 4/4 and sometimes not anything.
Do you mean that the barlines are sometimes absent? Or do you mean that the measures have melismatas in them? Or extra notes of another kind? Or....?

If it's simply absent barlines, you can take care of it by using regular barlines and then making them invisible. If it's melismatas, you can use grace notes. If it's something else, we can probably figure out something. But we'll need to know.

Re: help with notation please

Reply #3 –
As Rick pointed out, you'll need to have "something" set for a time signature in each staff.  There's no such thing as "nothing" there.

In Western music, for example, if want 2/4 on one staff with 6/8 on another staff, you'll need to do some visual tweaking.  You'll need to use just the one time signature (like 2/4) on both staffs, and then use some triplets, or dotted notes, or hidden rests, to get the bar lines to line up vertically.

If your Lebanese work needs a lot of space inside a measure on one staff to contain the notes and lyrics, you might need to pad the other staffs with dotted notes or hidden rests.  Use the same time signature on all the staffs, to get the bar lines aligned vertically -- just use dotted notes and rests to get the music playing as you like it.

NoteWorthy doesn't force you to adhere to your designated time signature in a given measure.  It doesn't force a bar line on you after a certain amount of beats.  It's very flexible (which is one of its strong points).  

If you need more notes, to cover more lyric syllables, you can do it.  Just pad the other staffs as needed with rests or notes, and of course fix the tempo there if you need to.

Can you post an example of what you're looking to do?

Re: help with notation please

Reply #4 –
I am embarrassed to say I am not sure what some of the terms you have used mean, such as melismatas. I am very new to this. I realize I have not described the problem very well. I would be happy to attach a copy of the nwc I have already made.  I have two versions. One where I tried to use rests and change the value of some notes to make the measures match, and one where I didn't (the trial version).
The problem is that you really need to be able to hear the music to get what it should sound like. I have it in iTunes, and could email it to anyone who is interested in hearing it.
I am sure it will be very simple to most of you, but I am just beginning and have no one to help me with all the ways nwc can do things. A lot of the posts are really for experts and people who are knowledgeable in theory. Please forgive my ignorance. I want to learn.  :)

Can someone tell me how to do an attachement? I went to help and it said "If enabled, this feature allows you to attach files to your posts in much the same way as most email clients, so you simply have to browse to the relevant file(s) on your computer before clicking Post." I don't see anything here on this form that allows me to attach and I can't find a way to enable it. I looked under additional options and it only has "return to this topic" and "don't use smileys".

Re: help with notation please

Reply #6 –
You are right. That's what I need to do. Now I just have to find that authorization code that I have to have to upgrade. I thought it was in a safe place, but that was a year ago.... Hopefully I can find it and then y'all can help me.

Re: help with notation please

Reply #7 –
Well, I got my membership updated and can now attach. In the meantime, I think I worked out my issues on my own. However, I am still going to attach the song, in case anyone wants to hear it. If you want the mp3, just ask and I will send it to you. It's a very cool version. When you look at my notation, don't let the beams weird you out. Half of the group I direct can't read music and can only really tell when to change notes if I attach them to the words very clearly. The song is really not full of triplets, etc.

Re: help with notation please

Reply #8 –
For the 4 staffs you posted (you may have other staffs you deleted before posting, looking at the default staff names and their MIDI channel numbers), it appears that they are all 4/4 time throughout!  You can easily hide the time signature for printing purposes if you want, but I see no reason now not to add it to all staffs.

Why hide the rests at the start of the second and third staffs, and in the middle of the third staff?  Why not just use whole rests for each resting measure?

Why the occasional red note in the first staff?  Why are all the objects red in the fourth staff?  Do you know about editing properties of an object (or of a group of objects simultaneously)?  You can use that to quickly turn off all the red if you'd simply hit the backslash key at some point by accident (use "select all" for the fourth staff).

You might like to edit properties for each bar right before a chorus or verse starts, and change it to a "double" bar.  You also might want want to check out Staff Properties (under Staff menu) for each staff, and Page Setup (under File menu).  It seems you have all defaults there, and you might like changing some things under many of the tabs.

Re: help with notation please

Reply #9 –
Thanks! I had no idea why those notes were red. I didn't know about the backslash function. I must have hit it by accident and was too engrossed in other changes to really pay attention.
And yes, I did have several other staffs I deleted. I tend to use practice staffs for changes I am not sure about, then eliminate the ones I don't want.
As for the time signature, most of the chant I work with has no true meter, no ryhtmic beat. It is all very subjective and the number of notes per measure change with each line. So I am not used to having a real time signature to work with. But you are right, I was finally able to hear this one clearly enough to recognize where I was off and get it to all line up. Adding the signature is certainly appropriate.
As for the other defaults and options, I am slowly working my way along, trying different things out. I know there is a gold mine of functions and tricks in this program that I know nothing about, but since I am self-teaching, it is taking me a long time to learn from trial and error. And there is so much I really don't understand. But everyone has to start somewhere, so I am trying.
Thanks for your help. I am attaching the changes I made. If you or anyone else have any more suggestions, please make them, but give me really clear directions as to how to use nwc to accomplish them.  : )
 

Re: help with notation please

Reply #11 –
Fascinating music, thanks for attaching so we can hear it.

Re: help with notation please

Reply #12 –
Quote
I must have hit it by accident

This seems to be a common problem.
It happened many times to me too.