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Topic: Il trillo del diavolo (Read 6072 times) previous topic - next topic

Il trillo del diavolo

that is: what the hell of a trill...

As Lawrie wrote:
Quote
In NWC, a grace note is fixed at a 32nd note (demisemiquaver) duration.

I wrote a trill like this (see attachement).

Why the trill stops early?
And why the final note doesn't play?
 

Re: Il trillo del diavolo

Reply #1 –
Some years ago there was some discussion about the maximum effective number of contiguous grace notes - seems to be around 16 but I forget the precise reasons that were worked out...

For your example, use a hidden sounding staff with normal 32nd notes instead of grace notes - the final note is then a 1/4 instead of a whole - the visible staff still has the whole note and NO grace notes.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Il trillo del diavolo

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
Some years ago there was some discussion about the maximum effective number of contiguous grace notes - seems to be around 16 but I forget the precise reasons that were worked out...
All the grace notes will sound but 16 or more cause the note borrowed from to be muted.
Quote
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Instrument|Name:"Flute"|Patch:73
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatOpen
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatClose|Repeat:16
|Note|Dur:Whole,Tenuto|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatOpen
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatClose|Repeat:15
|Note|Dur:Whole,Tenuto|Pos:0
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Probably best to do this as Lawrie did, on another staff.
This is an alternative:
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:F#
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Tempo|Tempo:112|Pos:11|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=First|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=End|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=First|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=End|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=First|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet|Pos:#1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=End|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=First|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=End|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End|Visibility:Never
|Text|Text:"tr~~"|Font:StaffItalic|Pos:7|Placement:AtNextNote
|RestChord|Dur:4th|Opts:Stem=Up,Muted,VertOffset=2000|Dur2:Whole|Pos2:-4
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End|Visibility:Never
|Rest|Dur:4th|Opts:VertOffset=2000
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End|Visibility:Never
|Rest|Dur:4th|Opts:VertOffset=2000
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-4|Visibility:Never
|Bar
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=First|Pos:-5|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=End|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=First|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=End|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=First|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=End|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=First|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=End|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
You may want to make the rests Visibility:Never and/or add a tenuto to the quarter note.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Il trillo del diavolo

Reply #3 –
Quote
Probably best to do this as Lawrie did, on another staff.

Of course I was well aware of that possibility and I also agree with Rick (and Lawrie).

What I was completely unaware of was the other limitation:
Quote
All the grace notes will sound but 16 or more cause the note borrowed from to be muted.

Now I understand some odd effects I encountered in the Haydn "Stücke für Flötenuhr"!

It seemed natural to me that, until the sum of the grace notes does not exceed the duration of the note borrowed from, the grace notes are played normally, then the borrowed note keeps what remains.

Why such a limitation?

BTW: Rick is great as usual.

Re: Il trillo del diavolo

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Flurmy –
Rick is great as usual.
Not really. I should have added that although all grace notes will play, more than 15 grace notes/rests play by different rules.
This clip shows some "interesting" effects.
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Instrument|Name:"Flute"|Patch:73
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatOpen
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:5
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatClose|Repeat:16
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatOpen
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:3
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatClose|Repeat:16
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatOpen
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:1
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatClose|Repeat:16
|Chord|Dur:Half,Tenuto|Pos:-6,-4,-2
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatOpen
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:5
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatClose|Repeat:5
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatOpen
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:3
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatClose|Repeat:5
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatOpen
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:1
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatClose|Repeat:5
|Chord|Dur:Half,Tenuto|Pos:-6,-4,-2
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatOpen
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:5
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatClose|Repeat:5
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatOpen
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:3
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatClose|Repeat:5
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatOpen
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:1
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatClose|Repeat:6
|Chord|Dur:Half,Tenuto|Pos:-6,-4,-2
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
To get grace notes to play by normal rules:
  • Each group of 16 grace notes/rests must be followed by a normal rest or muted note of at least half (note) duration.

The above applies to nwc2.exe, version 2.04.00 (the current version as of 2009Mar27)

If we get some statement from NoteWorthy to the effect that:
  • This behaviour is unlikely to change
I will do a User Tip on how to write Cadenzas. I already have an interesting one from Scriabin Op. 69, No. 1
Registered user since 1996