Repetita juvant

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Repetita juvant

2008-06-09 12:14 pm

I have a structure of this kind:

Intro (MRO) (segno) Chorus (SE1) ... (MRC) (SE2) ... (Fine) bridge (Dal segno al fine)

Since master repeats are ignored after one of the flow directions have been
executed, how can I force the chorus repetition (with the different special
endings) even after the "Dal segno al fine"?

Thanks in advance.
Maurizio

Re: Repetita juvant

Reply #1 – 2008-06-09 09:25 pm

If I'm reading your requirement correctly (which I perhaps am not), on the special ending that has the chorus in (the special ending 1),
you need to also have the special ending "D" default.then that is the special ending that will play after the flow direction has been executed.

Re: Repetita juvant

Reply #2 – 2008-06-10 07:05 am

Hi Richard,
well, perhaps I was too much criptic, sorry.

I know the use of the "default" special ending and I used it as a... "better than nothing" solution but that's not exactly what I need.
I try to explain it better.

The sequence I want is:

Intro, Chorus, SE1, Chorus, SE2, Bridge, Chorus, SE1, Chorus, SE2 (fine)

Inserting a segno just after the intro, a fine at the end of the SE2 and using a "Dal segno al fine" I get:

Intro, Chorus, SE1, Chorus, SE2, Bridge, (segno) Chorus, Bridge
(please note there is no SE1 nor SE2: awful!)

Using D together with SE2 I get

Intro, Chorus, SE1, Chorus, SE2, Bridge, (segno) Chorus, SE2(i.e. SED) (fine)

As I said, a tollerable workaround but not exactly what I need.

Any idea? (Beside, of course, using copy/paste ;-)

Thank you anyway.
Maurizio

Re: Repetita juvant

Reply #3 – 2008-06-10 08:27 am

I think this is what you are describing.
This could be lttle cleaner in NWC2
It is a shame that you can't use your own text in Special Endings.

According to Alfred's (pg 131) a Section Close barline should appear after the Fine. Don't try to put a real one on the unmuted staff

Re: Repetita juvant

Reply #4 – 2008-06-10 11:26 am

G'day Rick,

Quote from: Rick G. – 2008-06-10 08:27 am

It is a shame that you can't use your own text in Special Endings.

Actually, if you don't mind a little fiddling around, there are characters in my *Dings suites that allow you to do just that. You need to create the SE markings as well as the numbers...

The sample charts have this done in them.

http://zoundz.pardyline.com.au/

Re: Repetita juvant

Reply #5 – 2008-06-10 12:18 pm

Well Maurizio, I reckon Rick's got it spot on.
Nice one Rick - I think it would have taken me quite a while to get to that solution.

Re: Repetita juvant

Reply #6 – 2008-06-10 04:28 pm

Aha, I knew there was a way!

Thank you Rick (and all the others too).
Maurizio

Re: Repetita juvant

Reply #7 – 2008-06-10 06:40 pm

Quote from: Flurmy – 2008-06-10 07:05 am

The sequence I want is: Intro, Chorus, SE1, Chorus, SE2, Bridge, Chorus, SE1, Chorus, SE2 (fine)

Once you wrote that, the rest was easy. (sorry about the file name)

I once heard that: "The proper statement of a problem contains the seeds of its solution."
It seems especially true of flow problems.

Question for the group: I've often seen (usually Baroque) music with D.C. senza replica which is "do again without the repeats". Anyone know what what should be used for "do again with the repeats". Modern practice seems to be to omit the repeats (usually taking the last Special Ending).

Re: Repetita juvant

Reply #8 – 2008-06-10 10:25 pm

G'day Rick,

Quote from: Rick G. – 2008-06-10 06:40 pm

Question for the group: I've often seen (usually Baroque) music with D.C. senza replica which is "do again without the repeats". Anyone know what what should be used for "do again with the repeats". Modern practice seems to be to omit the repeats (usually taking the last Special Ending).

I can't help with "do again with the repeats", but the "modern practice" observation must relate to music other than that which I commonly see, though it is what I was taught when first playing brass band music lo these many years ago... Much of what I perform in church today is modern gospel with a pop flavour and repeats are almost always played after a DS or DC, usually notated as SE 1,3 and SE 2,4 etc. with the 3rd and 4th times occurring after the DS or DC.

So: Intro; MRO; Verse; Segno; Chorus; SE1,3; MRC; SE2,4 (To Coda); instrumental; bridge; DS al Coda; CODA
Or some such...

Proper flow control is quite often a problem for me. It is not that uncommon to need a DSS and double Segno, or double Coda markings too. Occasionally I can redefine the flow to work better with the available controls, but even this can only happen when I don't need to match the flow of printed charts others use that I'm not replacing.

My very first post in the NG related to a desire for better flow control...

Re: Repetita juvant

Reply #9 – 2008-06-11 07:15 am

Quote

Once you wrote that, the rest was easy. (sorry about the file name)

What's to be sorry, Rick? Very clear indeed ;-)

Lawrie, at the moment I can't recall any specific example but I think in the years I met both the "da capo (or "dal segno") con replica" and "da capo (or "dal segno") senza replica" or even "da capo (or "dal segno") senza ritornello (without refrain)".

Would you believe? I feel uneasy mixing italian and english in writing. It happens that I start writing in italian and I find myself keeping writing in italian even what should be in english and vice-versa...

Re: Repetita juvant

Reply #10 – 2008-06-11 07:44 am

G'day Flurmy,
mate - I'm an Aussie, some would say we don't even speak our first language very well, so you can imagine how I mangle Italian - especially when the only Italian terms I know are what I've seen written in music anyhow, so mixing it up isn't even a real option for me.

Still, the "con replica" does make sense...

Re: Repetita juvant

Reply #11 – 2008-06-11 05:07 pm

Quote from: Rick G.

Question for the group: I've often seen (usually Baroque) music with D.C. senza replica which is "do again without the repeats". Anyone know what what should be used for "do again with the repeats". Modern practice seems to be to omit the repeats (usually taking the last Special Ending).

Hi Rick -

I've never seen the instruction, but I would think any musician who understands senza replica would also understand con replica.

Cheers,

Bill

Re: Repetita juvant

Reply #12 – 2008-06-14 05:14 am

Max Rudolf states in The Grammar of Conducting the practice of omitting repeats after da capo did not begin until the middle of the 19th century. It would be nice if we had the option in Noteworthy.