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Topic: Invisible objects and horizontal space (Read 4042 times) previous topic - next topic

Invisible objects and horizontal space

A few versions ago invisible objects were modified to reduce/eliminate horizontal space consumption.

While this has been useful in some places, it has created some issues for me in others...

One of the techniques I regularly use is to have a "lyric" staff that is muted and which has all the normal elements of the staff it is copied from (normally the vocal staff) made invisible (Print|Never)

This enables me to have a staff with lyrics, chords and other common annotations that I can layer with any other staff to create a part that includes useful information for the instrumentalist.

Occasionally I will have rests on both staff but need to "hang" some chords from some place holder - I use rests.

With the change to visibility attributes comes my problem - please see the attached:

As it is it looks about right, but if you hide the lower staff (which is how I would normally use this snippet) you will see what happens to the chord notation


NB, the example uses the SwingDings suite...  It will work without it, but the chords will look funny(ier)...
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Invisible objects and horizontal space

Reply #1 –
You could make the rests visible and set VertOffset=2000.
Or try:
Quote
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up,Muted,VertOffset=2000|Dur2:Whole|Pos2:0z
This adds options to set XAccSpace and XNoteSpace

I don't see how you can hang 'things' on invisible objects and expect the 'things' to space properly. IOW, any cure would be much worse than the perceived disease.

Invisible Notes/Chords/Rests/RestChords still take up space if they create a new time position. That needs to be fixed. When it is (fixed), your chart will look even worse.
Edit: It appears NWC has done some recent work. Try:
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|RestChord|Dur:Whole|Opts:Stem=Up,VertOffset=2|Dur2:Whole|Pos2:0
|Bar
|RestChord|Dur:Half|Opts:Stem=Up,VertOffset=2|Dur2:Whole|Pos2:0
|Text|Text:"x"|Font:StaffBold|Pos:7|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Rest|Dur:Half|Opts:Stem=Up|Visibility:Never
|Bar
|RestChord|Dur:4th|Opts:Stem=Up,VertOffset=2|Dur2:Whole|Pos2:0
|Text|Text:"x"|Font:StaffBold|Pos:7|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Rest|Dur:4th|Opts:Stem=Up|Visibility:Never
|Text|Text:"x"|Font:StaffBold|Pos:7|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Rest|Dur:4th|Opts:Stem=Up|Visibility:Never
|Text|Text:"x"|Font:StaffBold|Pos:7|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Rest|Dur:4th|Opts:Stem=Up|Visibility:Never
|Bar
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up,VertOffset=2|Dur2:Whole|Pos2:0
|Text|Text:"x"|Font:StaffBold|Pos:7|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up|Visibility:Never
|Text|Text:"x"|Font:StaffBold|Pos:7|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up|Visibility:Never
|Text|Text:"x"|Font:StaffBold|Pos:7|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up|Visibility:Never
|Text|Text:"x"|Font:StaffBold|Pos:7|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up|Visibility:Never
|Text|Text:"x"|Font:StaffBold|Pos:7|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up|Visibility:Never
|Text|Text:"x"|Font:StaffBold|Pos:7|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up|Visibility:Never
|Text|Text:"x"|Font:StaffBold|Pos:7|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Rest|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up|Visibility:Never
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
with Increase spacing for longer notes checked and unchecked.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Invisible objects and horizontal space

Reply #2 –
G'day Rick,
Quote from: Rick G. –
You could make the rests visible and set VertOffset=2000.
Interesting thought...

Quote
Or try:This adds options to set XAccSpace and XNoteSpace

Less attractive...  Could possibly adversely affect spacing on other staves...

Quote
I don't see how you can hang 'things' on invisible objects and expect the 'things' to space properly. IOW, any cure would be much worse than the perceived disease.

That's my point, it used to work just fine.  It was only with the changes made 4 or 5 (I think) updates ago that this became a problem - I hadn't really run into it as I haven't been doing so many charts for church until just very recently...

Quote
Edit: It appears NWC has done some recent work. Try:
<snip>

Not quite sure what I'm supposed to be seeing here...
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Invisible objects and horizontal space

Reply #3 –
What you call 'less attractive' spaces the same. It is just harder to edit the duration.

In the past, you were exploiting a bug that has been removed. Welcome to Beta Testing :)

Try converting my long clip to NWC 1.75. IMO, this represents major progress.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Invisible objects and horizontal space

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
In the past, you were exploiting a bug that has been removed. Welcome to Beta Testing :)

I shall need to back over the discussions at the time - I don't recall exactly what was happening.

The behaviour was consistent with 1.75 - I don't actually remember considering it a bug but I do seem to recall some significant discussion about advantages from the new behaviour.

But now I have a lot of works that may need to be revised - or not - depends on whether I need to reprint them...

I also may not have time to revisit the other discussions for a while...

Anyway, moving the rests off the page is an effective work around - I just hope Eric doesn't disable this "feature" - actually, I'd like to see it capitalised on in the UI instead of just in user tools.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Invisible objects and horizontal space

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
moving the rests off the page is an effective work around - I just hope Eric doesn't disable this "feature" - actually, I'd like to see it capitalised on in the UI instead of just in user tools.
This should be a 'no brainer'.  No change to the UI is needed. Simply change the program to: "If the Vertical Offset is set to either extreme (currently +/-15), no ink goes on the page". Expand the spinbox limits as needed.
Registered user since 1996