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Topic: Odd (?) use of Fermata (Read 4649 times) previous topic - next topic

Odd (?) use of Fermata

In the vocal score for G&S The Gondoliers I stumbled on the following configuration:
In 3/4 time, in the upper piano staff, a dotted quarter note marked with a trill, over a dotted half note, and followed by two eighth notes and a sixteenth; in the lover staff a half note with a fermata, followed by a quarter rest.
I interpret this to mean that the trill should be prolonged (I have no idea whether the first eighth should be, as well).
I see no way to have both correct notation and play-back. A hidden staff would not seem to help, as the fermata would (I assume) propagate through all staffs, presumably effecting the first note of the (hidden) trill.
So? Is it possible?

Re: Odd (?) use of Fermata

Reply #1 –
Oh, Cyril, you old programmer you!
(takes on to know one ... :)
I really would imagine that this is interpreted variously, in fact, I would say
1) There is not enough information for an unambiguous interpretation because
2a) the music typographer made a mistake or
2b) Sir Sullivan made a mistake
I have many (many!) bits of music with what I imagine to be mistakes in them (they were written (and typeset) by humans, after all) and I would say that this may be one more.

Andrew

Re: Odd (?) use of Fermata

Reply #2 –
Well, I have at least one other example of this sort of thing, this one by Virgil Thompson.
He has a snare drum line with a dotted half note with two slashes on the stem (i.e., a dotted half's worth of sixteenth notes), with a fermata over it -- meaning, I assume, MORE than a dotted half's worth.

Also, elsewhere in "The Gondoliers" there is a whole note chord with triple slashes over it, commented as "trem.", with a fermata.

So, it appears that at least two composers, one late 19th cent., one mid 20th, use the fermata to extend sequences of notes, not just to hold a single note.

The Thompson score (the vocal score for "Four Saints in Three Acts" has so many things that I can't "do" in NWC that I am thinking of scanning a sample (about 55 items!) of oddities and posting them to the news group.
I don't even know what to call some of them. Then you gurus can tell me, a) what they are called, and b) if they are worth throwing into the wish-list.
Some are old favorates, like duples, 4-ples, 5-ples, etc., while some seem off the wall, but do serve a real purpose in this case. Others I just have no clue.

If you think posting images is a bad idea throw a brick-bat in my direction and I will exercise my minimal powers of verbal description instead.

Cyril N. Alberga

Re: Odd (?) use of Fermata

Reply #3 –
Hi

Which part of Gondoliers are you refering to?
Also, remember that what you get in the vocal score is really
a piano reduction (usually not by Sullivan), not a piano arrangement.
I had this explained to me many years ago by a very good
rehearsal pianist who pointed out that some of the notation
was impossible to play on the piano!

Ian

Re: Odd (?) use of Fermata

Reply #4 –
Yes, it is the piano reduction, and yes, there are notes which "overlap", i.e. half-note on F, say, with a quarter rest, followed (the rest that is) by a quarter note on F. That sort of thing.
The tremulo under a fermata is the final chord of the overture. The trill on the same beat as the fermata is near the end of the Allegretto grazioso section of the overture, measure 47 (or counting backwards from the following double bar, measure -9).

The drum roll with the fermata is in the first measure of the piano reduction of "Four Saint in Three Acts".

Cyril

Re: Odd (?) use of Fermata

Reply #5 –
FYI:

> A hidden staff would not seem to help, as the fermata
> would (I assume) propagate through all staffs,
> presumably effecting the first note of the (hidden) trill.

A fermata that is assigned a 0 delay is essentially non-existent as far as NWC playback is concerned. You can add your fermatas with 0 delay, then create your actual pause effect in a different manner, such as with an MPC change, hidden tempo changes, or whatever.