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"This file was not properly saved"

When starting NWC2, and opening a file I am working on, I sometimes get an error dialogue with a "This file was not properly saved" message. After about 10 instances of this, (resolved by clicking on "OK"), it stops appearing. Any ideas what is causing this and how to stop it would be welcome.

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #1 –
G'day Rob,
I don't really have any ideas at the moment but I'd like to gather some data if I may:

  • When you click OK does the file seem complete, is there anything missing from where you left it?
  • Does it occur when launching NWC2 or when you actually open the file?
  • Is this the same as the "crash recovery" dialogue?
  • Have you checked your "temp" directories?  They should be pretty much empty.
  • Are other programs showing similar problems?
  • How well are you protected from exploits from the net?  (bearing in mind that the only truly safe computer has been dismantled and the pieces locked in a dark cupboard)
  • Is there any indication that you may be having hardware problems - E.G. noisy hard drive?
  • Is your windows fully patched?
  • What version is your windows installation?

That'll do for now...
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #2 –
Hello Lawrie. Thanks for replying. Some quick answers to your questions...

When you click OK does the file seem complete, is there anything missing from where you left it?

Yes - everything is present and correct.

Does it occur when launching NWC2 or when you actually open the file?

Only after a file has been open for a few minutes of use.

Is this the same as the "crash recovery" dialogue?

I have never seen a "crash recovery" dialogue, in any instance of NWC since 1996!

Have you checked your "temp" directories?  They should be pretty much empty.

They are.

Are other programs showing similar problems?

No.

How well are you protected from exploits from the net?  (bearing in mind that the only truly safe computer has been dismantled and the pieces locked in a dark cupboard)

Through a hardware firewall and Bullguard.

Is there any indication that you may be having hardware problems - E.G. noisy hard drive?

None. This is a brand new machine.

Is your windows fully patched?

Yes.

What version is your windows installation?

Vista Home Premium.

Rob.

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Rob Elliott –
Hello Lawrie. Thanks for replying. Some quick answers to your questions...

A pleasure Rob.

Quote
Does it occur when launching NWC2 or when you actually open the file?

Only after a file has been open for a few minutes of use.


Hmm, this is bahaviour I haven't seen.  We'll probably need some input from NoteworthyOnline...

Quote
Is this the same as the "crash recovery" dialogue?

I have never seen a "crash recovery" dialogue, in any instance of NWC since 1996!


The only time I see it is when the machine has crashed for other reasons and I happen to have NWC open at the time...

Quote
What version is your windows installation?

Vista Home Premium.


OK, I don't have any personal experience with Vista yet...  If it's the 32 bit version I'd expect little difference from XP in handling NWC, though you could try telling Vista that NWC2.exe is to be run in XP compatibility mode - just go to the properties of the file...

If you have the 64 bit version I wonder if there's some kind of glitch with thread handling...

Unfortuantely I don't have any definitive answers.  With a new machine I wouldn't expect any hardware issues, and with a new OS who knows what m$ have broken...  I say m$ as this behaviour is inconsistent with any I've seen reported for NWC under previous Windows versions.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Rob Elliott –
When starting NWC2, and opening a file I am working on, I sometimes get an error dialogue with a "This file was not properly saved" message. After about 10 instances of this, (resolved by clicking on "OK"), it stops appearing. Any ideas what is causing this and how to stop it would be welcome.

If this happens only when you start NWC2, then this is the Auto Save feature at work.

What are your settings for Auto Save in Tools, Options? How are you closing NWC2 before you start work again? Do you have another instance of NWC2 or NWC1 open when you start work again?

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #5 –
I don't think Windows Vista is your problem.  I've used NWC1 and 2beta on Vista for a few months now and haven't had a single problem, except I've found out the sound card that came with my computer reeks (doesn't have enough tracks on it or something).  I'd say you've either messed with a setting or you've got an outside interference from some other program.

You might consider closing background programs while using NWC just to see if it helps.  This would include messengers, Internet, and antivirus, as well as any media players or document editors.

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #6 –
Thanks for the suggestions so far.

I have backups on, and autosave set for 5 minutes. While autosave may be a contributor, the instances of the "this file.." message does not seem to be linked to this. The messages do not appear at 5 minute intervals, but all together, one after the other. Having said that, it hasn't happened yet today! Incidentally, I have just checked the contents of the autosave folder, and it is empty. It may be a misunderstanding on my part, but I expected to find at least the autosave of the current file here!

I only ever have one instance of the program open at any one time, and while NWC1 is still installed, it has been unused since installing NWC2. I always close the program from the file menu, after closing all files.

I agree that Vista is unlikely to be the cause of this. And I never have any other programs open when using NWC.

Rob.

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #7 –
The error message that you are getting is caused by the failure of the AutoSave mechanism to successfully save into the AutoSave folder. You either do not have write access to the AutoSave folder, or the folder does not exist.

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #8 –
The folder certainly exists - otherwise I wouldn't have known it was empty! However, its attributes are set to read only, which will not "uncheck".

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #9 –
Try creating a new folder and deleting that one.

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Rob Elliott –
The folder certainly exists - otherwise I wouldn't have known it was empty! However, its attributes are set to read only, which will not "uncheck".

I assume you are running Win2k or WinXP and NTFS file system on the disk.  NTFS allows for permissions on the file system.  These can get screwed up - Easy solution - login as Administrator and grant the group "Users" full rights to the Notewrothy structure - Do this even if you normally login as Administrator;  a member of the Administrators group or even the "owner" (first user created during install) on XPHome which is an Administrator user anyway.

NTFS is a vast improvement on FAT for the most part, bet it still gets screwed up and the most annoying screw up is in file system permissions - this is not uncommon.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #11 –
You could also go to Tools-Options-Folders and change the folder of "Auto Save/Recovery" to a folder inside your home directory.

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #12 –
I have tried to uncheck the "read only" attribute on all folders within NWC2. Good idea, Lawrie. But despite logging on as Administrator, despite Vista allowing me to uncheck all internal folders (although only in a specific order (alphabetically in reverse order - some of them requiring more than one try), I cannot uncheck the attributes on either the Config or Autosave folders. Both of these are empty. Then if I check the attributes on the other folders all are reset to "read only". Bizarre.

I have just had to clear individually over 20 instances of this error message, which appeared about one per second about 10 minutes after opening the file.

I am close to removing NWC2 and starting again, but I still think there must be an easier way. I am loth to deleting the Autosave folder and creating a new one, Bob, in case this just compounds the problem.

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #13 –
G'day Rob,
you've misunderstood my message.  I wasn't talking about changing attributes, but permissions.

As an administrator user:
  • Open "My Computer"
  • Double Click on C:
  • Select |Tools|Folder Options| from the menus
  • Select the "View" tab
  • Scroll to the bottom and confirm the status of "Use simple file sharing"
  • If you can't find this option you must be using "XP Home" (Oops - Vista - hmm probably also a "Home" edition) in which case you are using simple file sharing.
  • If you are using simple file sharing there shouldn't be a problem but who knows...
  • If you are not using simple file sharing you have options on drive and folder properties to set permissions.  Give Administrator full permissions at "Program Files" level ("C:\Program Files") and allow the permissions to traverse the entire structure.
  • Otherwise, you could rename the current autosave folder and create a new one with the old name.  Check that NWC2 is pointing to the correct folder in |Tools|Options|Folders (Tab)|  This is probably the easiest alternative regardless.  When you have confirmed that it works, you can delete the old, renamed one.
  • You could also simply create a completely new folder somewhere else entirely and modify the NWC2 folder settings to point to the new one.

Edit - Just did a re-read and realised that you are using Vista - basic principles still apply, but actual steps may be different - haven't played with Vista yet...
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.
 

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
You could also simply create a completely new folder somewhere else entirely and modify the NWC2 folder settings to point to the new one
This tip should work with any Windows flavor.

Long ago, when backup storage was expensive, power users made a clear distinction between programs and data. They went into separate folders and only the data got backed up. Network admins granted only limited access to program folders. Still a good idea.

IMO, NWC2 should not store data in sub-folders of "NoteWothy Composer 2" by default. You should also be able to pick the starting location for User Tools. Currently, the start appears to be hardwired relative to the executable.
Registered user since 1996

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #15 –
G'day Rick,
Quote from: Rick G. –
IMO, NWC2 should not store data in sub-folders of "NoteWothy Composer 2" by default. You should also be able to pick the starting location for User Tools. Currently, the start appears to be hardwired relative to the executable.

Actually, the command line for usertools is only relative to the NWC2 folder if you don't specify otherwise.  E.G. If you had your "Prn2File.vbs" in the root directory then the command for the user tool would be:
wscript c:\prn2file.vbs

which works fine.

The ability to specify the scripts folder would be nice but I think unnecessary in this light...

Speaking of "light", this is a quote my daughter told us last night at band practice:

"Lite" - the new way to spell light, now with 20% less letters!

My how our language goes downhill...
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
Actually, the command line for usertools is only relative to the NWC2 folder if you don't specify otherwise. 
No, it is always relative to the progam folder. You must specify an absolute path to get outside of it. And you must do it for every Tool. This makes it fairly impractical to locate the Scripts folder anywhere but where it is. It works, but it is a poor practice.
Registered user since 1996

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #17 –
G'day Rick,
think we'll end up agreeing to disagree somewhat.  In all the networks I've supported over the years it has always been my preference to have applications that used relative references rather than absolute, hard coded ones.  This made management and support orders of magnitude easier.

The fact that NWC allows you to use an absolute reference or a relative reference is a bonus IMHO.  There is no reason that you cannot use the "../.." kind of structure if you wanted.  I do agree that being able to specify the location of the scripts folder would be useful but I don't think it is a big deal.  The ability to browse for scripts tends to diminish the issue anyhow - again IMHO.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #18 –
The extra AutoSave error messages are a problem that we will fix.

The simplest way to confirm that you have a problem with the AutoSave folder is to try manually saving into it. If that fails, then you probably have a folder permissions problem (although, other disk related problems could also be the cause).

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #19 –
Greetings, and thanks for the suggestions to date. I have given it a rest for a week, but am now back on the case.

I can save into the Autosave folder at will, so no obvious problem there. Vista seems to handle permissions a little differently to XP, but as far as I can tell, I have full administrator permissions across the board.

I'd like to dig a bit deeper into this, if I may. Assuming I have autosave/recovery on and set to 2 minutes, I would expect the current file to update itself automatically in its original location. It isn't doing that at all.
 
My autosave folder is empty, but then, so is the autosave folder in my original NWC installation, so I am clearly misunderstanding the function of this folder. Unless neither programme is working as it should under Vista. Or does the Autosave folder only contain recovery files in the event of a crash?

Now, as I say, either I am completely misunderstanding a programme I have used without any issues in NWC1 format under pre XP versions of Windows for 10 years, or some things have changed....

Best wishes,

Rob.





Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Rob Elliott –
Assuming I have autosave/recovery on and set to 2 minutes, I would expect the current file to update itself automatically in its original location

No, the AutoSave feature will save a copy of a file into your designated autosave folder. However, it will only do this if changes have been made to the file since it was opened, or since the last auto save event (whichever is more recent). Nothing is saved into the original file until you explicitly save it.

Auto save files are automatically deleted when you close the file (whether you saved it yourself or not). This feature is meant as a protection from power failures and program crashes. It will not save files for you that you refuse to save yourself.

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #21 –
Thanks for the clarification. Autosave is working as it should!

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #23 –
An issue that somewhat relates to this one is something that happened after I switched to Vista.

I had to print a few orchestra parts one day for a performance that evening. 
My printer was not yet connected (no cable came with it, was waiting for one to be shipped), so I had to take the NWC files to my son's computer to print them. 
I opened the appropriate folders - nowhere to be seen!  I did a search - nowhere to be found! 
I re-opened NWC and the files were intact. 
After doing an advanced search (forcing many options), I found them here:  C:\Users\WhateverYourIdentityIs\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\NoteWorthy Composer\FileFolderName
instead of here:  C:\Program Files\NoteWorthy Composer\FileFolderName
Don't know why Vista has to do this...

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #24 –
Quote from: K.A.T. –
After doing an advanced search (forcing many options), I found them here:  C:\Users\WhateverYourIdentityIs\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\NoteWorthy Composer\FileFolderName
instead of here:  C:\Program Files\NoteWorthy Composer\FileFolderName
Don't know why Vist has to do this...

For those who haven't upgraded yet, "Advanced" in Vista means you can choose the location, the date, the name, tags, authors, and size...although a Vista search has yet to find something for me that I'm looking for.  For some reason, though...Vista searches are not as thorough as XP searches, much less as thorough as Windows 98/ME/2000 searches.

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #25 –
Quote
Vista searches are not as thorough as XP searches
That's why it's so fast!  ;-)

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #26 –
Rob, to clarify a problem you pointed to earlier, i.e., not being able to remove the "read only" attribute of a file folder: this is actually a built-in Windows feature. File folders are always read-only: you can uncheck the read-only box in the properties dialogue, but the system will simply re-check it as soon as you close the dialogue. This has been the case since at least XP, and I suspect from the beginning. I have no idea why. It doesn't affect your ability to write to the folder, rename it, delete it, or do much of anything else with it as far as I can tell. I wasted a good number of perfectly good curse words before I discovered this.

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #27 –
Quote from: K.A.T. –
That's why it's so fast!  ;-)

Fast if you're running it on a dual-core processor with 2 GB of RAM, anyway...Vista is the biggest resource hog of the whole Windows family.  The new computers are hardly enough to keep up with it!  That's why I'm upgrading my RAM this week...

Don't get me wrong, though.  I love Vista for everything but those advanced controls that they took away from us.  E.g. the Sound Recorder is now a panel with single button: "record."  Once you press it, it turns into "stop."  Once you press it again, it asks you where to save it, and there's no editing allowed at all, or even playback.  Urg....  Sound Recorder used to be as close a friend to me as Noteworthy!

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #28 –
About sound recorder, even on XP, it can only record 60 seconds of audio.  That's when I switched to Audacity.  http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #29 –
Quote from: kahman –
About sound recorder, even on XP, it can only record 60 seconds of audio. 
Up thru XP, Sound Recorder won't create a new file longer than 60 seconds or add more than 60 seconds to an existing file in one operation..

If you start with a blank dummy file, Sound Recorder will record over its entire length. The only limit seems to be disk space.
Registered user since 1996

Re: "This file was not properly saved"

Reply #30 –
Quote from: kahman –
About sound recorder, even on XP, it can only record 60 seconds of audio.  That's when I switched to Audacity.  http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

I used to use it on Windows 98se.  I realized that it was impossible to let it record for that long, but I quickly found the trick:

Record 1 second, and hit "Decrease Tempo" a few times until it's long enough.  (It doubles the length, and brings the frequency down to half the frequency, changing the pitch accordingly.-- at least, that was the INTENDED purpose!  Nice tweak there!)  THEN, record over that, and you can easily crop out the stuff at the beginning and end.  I had recordings that lasted over five minutes, possibly six, all made using sound recorder.  And now it's a single button.  So much for that.  It used to be such a powerful tool...

EDIT: Just tested it in XP, and it allows for just over 2.8 hours per file, and just under 3 hours.