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Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

First of all, I shall not presume to instruct anyone about this subject, when the chances are quite high that some people who read this will know more about it and understand it better than I do. For anyone who is interested and is not sure what this is about, I would refer you to a couple of websites that offer excellent explanations:

http://cnx.rice.edu/content/m11639/latest/

http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/scales.html

The point is, for me at least, that I only recently came to any kind of understanding of this issue, and inevitably, having read up on it, I wanted to test my own musical ear to see if I could tell the difference. Having only shortly before that become a user, I investigated whether Noteworthy Composer could help, but was disappointed to find that it offered no facility to specify Just Intonation, nor any facility to make notes sound at a specified frequency. I then realised, or thought I had realised, that it was the MIDI standard that specified the note frequencies, and that all Noteworthy Composer could do was turn those notes on and off.

Then, more recently, I was reading the various articles on the Noteworthy website about pitch bend and the penny finally dropped. Understand, I was always aware of the pitch bend wheel on my MIDI keyboard, I just hadn’t realised that it was something that Noteworthy provided a facility to control. So I started to do some number crunching, and I have come up with the required pitch bend setting for each note, to give you Just Intonation for any given keynote.

Now, of course, it could well be that nobody is bothered about Just Intonation, that as far as MIDI sequencing goes, everyone is content with equal temperance. Equally it could be that others have already solved this particular puzzle though I find no mention of it on the Noteworthy website. Even if anyone is interested, there is a rather large practicality issue - if you wanted to make an individual part use Just Intonation, you would have to attach an mpc control to virtually every note. Only repeated notes would not require an mpc control attached. And if the part contains any chords, you would have to layer a separate staff for each note in the chord (each using a separate MIDI channel) to apply different pitch bend settings for each note in the chord. However, it is not impossible that some may be interested, and even that some might find it useful.

So my original idea was to create a forum thread and attach a zip file containing all the details to see if it generated any interest. But I find that, though I can create links on a forum article, I cannot create a link to a file. I am a UK user who bought my copy of Noteworthy Composer through PDSL so I have no access to the newsgroup. And I do not have a website. So, unless anyone has any other suggestions, I shall wait to see of anyone responds to this indicating that they are interested, and if so I shall submit my data to Noteworthy to see if they will create a user tip with a link to the zip file.

If what I get is a windy silence and drifting tumbleweed then I shall take the rod out of the back of my shirt and return to the MIDI files I was sequencing when I went off at this tangent.

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #1 –
You may be interested to hear that an American chap whose name I forget but who called himself "harpsichordist to the internet" did a very similar thing to this a few years back, and achieved the necessary result by having 12 midi tracks, one for each note, and adding the necessary pitch bend to each track at the beginning. He then input practically the whole works of William Byrd (and Scarlatti IIRC) in 1/4 comma meantone. I have still have some of these (ok, all of these, they're only small after all!!!!!) if you'd like to have them. They are the absolute proof that equal temperament is a mental disease and that meantone is glorious perfection for early music. Just intonation might not be so good for polyphony, but I've never heard a keyboard tuned to this.

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #2 –
Hi Jeremy, thanks for your reply. Absolutely I am interested in the files you have, but the same problem applies. My understanding is that it is a breach of the rules for us to exchange presonal e-mail addresses this way, and in any case, in these days of veritable snowstorms of spam, I am not keen to openly broadcast my e-mail address. So I am not sure how you can send the files to me unless you have a website I can log onto.

The technique you mentioned certainly seems to offer a solution to the practicality problem I mentioned. Also, please understand that I have calculated the required pitch bends for all twelve keynotes. The point being, of course that with Just Intonation, the tuning is different for each of the twelve keynotes. And, in point of fact, there are thirteen notes within each keynote, because of the vexed question of the augmented fourth and diminished fifth. (It is years ago I remember being told that these notes were not the same. I never did quite understand why - until now!)

And, in answer to your final point, absolutely if you are playing your MIDI keyboard or sequencing a piece for piano you would have to be somewhat perverse to want to use anything other than Equal Temperance. But when I see that some people on the forum wanted to know how to 'detune' it seems possible to me that someone sequencing, say, a string quartet, might want to use Just Intonation. My understandng is that a group of string players - if they have not been over comditioned to equal temperance - would naturally tend to use Just Intonation.

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #3 –
As far as mail addresses go: if you disguise your address a bit, then at least robots cannot find it. For instance, if your mail address is
myself@home, then disguise it as (to name a few options)
myselfNOT@WAGNERhome
myselfOLD@PAINThome  (see? Just remove the old paint)
myself_at_home
and such. If you trust the Forum members, that is.

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #4 –
Several soft synths allow you to retune to various intonations.
Roland Sound Canvas, Yamaha SYXG series.
Unfortunatley it requires Sysex strings to implement which are not supported by NWC (among other things).

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #5 –
While I only have a very small understanding of Just Intonation, I'd love to hear the works that Jeremy Ewen mentions he has.  I think a decent way to send files is with YouSendIt.  Just type your own address to send to, and you'll get the link for downloading the file from yousendit servers.  Then you can post the link here.  If the size of the link is bothering you, you can shrink it with a service such as TinyUrl.
Sincerely,
Francis Beaumier
Green Bay, WI

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #6 –
Following the suggestion made by Francis, I have posted the zip file at YouSendIt. The link is http://s45.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0SXONOVE8PQ7M06T83XD3D6M6D. It has limited availability.

Two thoughts have occurred to me since yesterday. Firstly on the practicality issue, a point that is only any use in version 2 (as a UK user the beta release of version 2 is another thing I have no access to - does anyone know what the schedule is for the full release?). Looking on the forum for version 2, I notice that one of the features it adds is the facility to export .nwc files in a text format. That raises the immediate possibility of importing into Excel and writing VBA macros to add the necessary mpc controls. Hey presto - conversion from one tuning system to another in minutes. Of course, what would be really good would be if Noteworthy Composer itself supported VBA...

Secondly, the zip file contains, not only the table of calculated values for pitch bend to give Just Intonation, it also gives full details of how I worked them out and a couple of .nwc files, one demonstrating the Harmonic Series and another comparing Equal Temperance and Just Intonation chromatic scale, intervals and triads. I cannot put all of that into text format. What I can put into text format is the key formulae. Details of the correct frequencies for Equal Temperance and those for Just Intonation can be found on those website links I provided. The key formulae here are the ones that relate pitch bend setting to actual frequency produced. So, bearing in mind that a pure text editor puts severe limits on how well I can present them, here are those key formulae:

Note:    These formulae are on the basis that the largest required pitch bend is one semi-tone. All frequencies within the range of the MIDI instrument can be achieved within this limitation. In point of fact, if the nearest equal temperance semitone is selected, all required pitch bend settings should be within the range -2047 to +2047.

To find the produced frequency for any given pitch bend setting:

fp = fe * ((12th root of 2) ^ (p/4095))

where

fp = frequency at that pitch bend setting
fe = Equal temperance frequency
p  = pitch bend setting

To find the required pitch bend setting for a particular frequency:

p = log to the base (12th root of 2) of (fp/fe) * 4095

where

p  = pitch bend setting
fp = frequency at that pitch bend setting
fe = Equal temperance frequency

If you are calculating using Excel, be aware of the slightly perverse quirk of the Excel logarithm function that you put the value in the first argument and the base in the second argument.

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #7 –
I have found the chap Jeremy Ewen was talking about. His name is John Sankey and his website is at:

http://www.sankey.ws/harpsichord.html

Files can be downloaded from there.

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #8 –
You might want to look at the Scriptorium, Helpfull files department:

http://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful.html#Harmony
NWC Scriptorium - Helpful Files

The first item (which I have not used myself) will probably do all of the computations for you.

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #9 –
A range of -2047 to +2047 sounds logical-ish. As a programmer, I would say -2048 to +2047, but this swings equally far left and right, right?

The frequency formula gets me puzzled, though:
fp = fe * ((12th root of 2) ^ (p/4095))
I would expect p/4096, being 2 ^ 13. Why 2 ^13 minus 1?

I'm not saying you are wrong: obviously, you have been studying the material. And intensely so. Care to elucidate?

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #10 –
Well done Ken, I remembered his name just as I got to your thread! I had it on my favourites list until about a year ago but erased it when I got "address not found" a couple of times. But you'll admit that his William Byrd pieces are fantastic!

JE

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #11 –
Okay, this gets somewhat away from the musical point, but since you have baited me Rob, I'll take you on. For anyone who's interest is musical ignore the following. This is low level computer geeky stuff:

The actual range of the MIDI pitch-bend wheel is -8192 to 8191, which tells me that the AtoD converter on the pitch bend wheel is 14 bit. That is used to bend the pitch a full tone in each direction. Each note on the keyboard is one equal temperance semi-tone apart. So a range of -4096 to 4095 is sufficient to cause any note to cover the range between those adjacent to it. Clearly, bending any note a quarter tone down brings it to the same frequency you would get of you bent the note below a quarter tone up. So, as I said, if you always select the equal temperance semi-tone closest to the frequency you are trying to achieve, you will never need to bend it more than a quarter tone. Hence the range -2048 to +2047. As you said, for reasons of balance, symmetry, not having to get involved in low level discussions of the reason for the imbalance in which most will not be faintly interested, I quoted the range as -2047 to + 2047.

The relationship between frequency and pitch is an exponential / logarithmic relationship. Since the frequency of the note one octave higher than any given note is twice that given note's frequency and there are twelve equal semi-tone steps in that octave, the frequency of each semitone is the 12th root of 2 times the frequency of the previous one. The 4096 steps of the pitch bend wheel divide that semi-tone in a similarly exponential / logarithmic manner. So proportioning the actual pitch bend setting to the semi-tone range in the exponent or logarithm base (depending on which direction you are going) gives you the frequency - pitch bend relationship. Proportioning it to 4095 or 4096 is not going to make a great difference to your result. And not even the finest musical ear in the world can detect a pitch bend difference of 1!

Incidentally, 4096 is 2^12 not 2^13.

To use the full range of the wheel use the 6th root of 2 instead of the 12th root of 2 (6 whole equal temperance tones in the octave) and the proportion the pitch bend setting to 8191 (or 8192 if you prefer, again it will not make a siginificant difference).

Final point, I did check out the utility written by Fred Nachbaur mentioned by Cyril Alberga in reply 8 above. And within 1, his utility gets the same pitch bend settings that I did. He uses a different harmonic ratio for his minor seventh than I did - though his utility allows you to change the harmonic ratio used for any interval. His solution for the augmented 4th / diminshed fifth also differs from mine which means for the Eb scale, his frequencies all differ from mine. If anyone wants to take me on on that point, I am perfectly willing to defend the values I have used for that too.

Does that answer it Rob?

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #12 –
Hi Jeremy, so far I have only listened to the Scarlatti sonatas K1 and K2. I tried importing them into NWC. I can see that, exactly as you said, he uses a separate staff for each note. Naturally, whatever pitch bend he put in the midi files does not survive the import. But that allowed me to create Equal Temperance and Just Intonation versions of each one. I have to confess that I find it difficult to tell the difference when I play them back. Unfortunately, the rhythm doesn't really survive the import either and the playback of the imported versions is pretty jerky. The original MIDI files played on my MIDI keyboard do sound tremendous though. Thanks for the lead anyway.

Ken

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #13 –
Fair enough, Ken. Yeah... 1K = 2^12, so 4096 is 2 steps away, not 3. I know my powers of 2 up to 65536, so I should have known better.
And your explanation holds, I believe. If not, I doubt if anyone could hear a note being off by 1/4096th...

Quite a bit of material you have, there. I think I'll save this thread - thanks.
Rob.

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #14 –
Hi Rob, I feel much better for having that reply. I assure you I was chuckling to myself as I wrote that reply to you and you should understand that the comment about computer geeks was self-disparaging - I am employed as a software engineer! But inevitably, after I sent it I had a crisis that it might have been read as bad tempered. I assure you it was not.

I have also since then gathered quite the respect with which Fred Nachbaur is held on this forum. Again, I hope my comments were not misunderstood. His utility is first class - it allows for all the other tuning systems - I must confess that I don't necessaily understand the argument for the myriad other tuning systems, I understand the argument for Just Intonation, and my point was that the fact that his utility allows for changing the harmonic ratio for any interval shows an acceptance that different people have may have different opinions about the correct one to use. The one I used for the minor seventh (16/9) is an inversion of the one used for the major second (9/8). Likewise my ratios (when I say my ratios - I got them off those websites I referred to!) for the aumented fourth (64/45) and diminished fifth (45/32) are an inversion of each other.

In any case, thanks for your reply and the opportunity to show a little humility!

Ken

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #15 –
Equal Temperance = Everyone drinks the same amount

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #16 –
Quick anecdote: One of the more prominent Brass Bands here in the North of England is a band that for many years had been called Wingates Temperance. Until they followed the fashion for taking sponsorship. When they became Bass Wingates. Bass is one of the largest brewerys in the UK.

Truth is the name was just a tradition in any case. Brass players are hardly reknowned for their temperance!

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #17 –
My son has a picture of a beautiful old Bass delivery-truck (in the shape of a bottle!) in his room.
Been there, seen it, got the poster. And drank in temperance ;-)

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #18 –
Sadly, in my home town of Burton upon Trent, the centre of the British brewing industry, and the home of Bass, after a take over by Coors, the name of Bass has almost been extinguished in the town. Even the Bass Brewing museum is now re-named.  Everywhere you see the name "COORS"

Tony

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #19 –
Is the super-antiquated power plant still up?
No kidding: I really would like to know!

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #20 –
Yes, I am beginning to see the fun of wandering off the musical point.

Tony, I have a very strong memory of driving past the Bass brewery (as it still was then) and the overwhelming smell of ----- Marmite! Not many people know that Marmite is made as a by-product of the brewing process and that the Marmite factory stands adjacent to the Bass brewery.

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #21 –
What is Marmite?

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #22 –
Marmite (we don't have it in Holland, I think) is a yeast extract and a rich source of five B Vitamins. Popular as a sandwich spread, but also extensively used in cooking.

you can see a picture here .

Also, 'une marmite' = a cauldron.

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #23 –
Love that picture Rob! Goodness me I'm hungry. Think I'll go and have a sandwich...

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #24 –
Hey, thanks so much, Ken!
I was working on this same project, but now you've saved me a few days' work!
Thank you!

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #25 –
Hi Grateful,

can't tell you how delighted I am that it was helpful for someone. I have to confess, all my experiments have been somewhat inconclusive. I wasn't getting very far with those Sankey files that Jeremy Ewen put us on to, so I decided to do an experiment sequencing a couple of the Bach Chorales, doing Equal Temperance and Just Intonation versions of them. And the best I can say is that the difference is certainly subtle. I felt that the bass sounded a bit richer in the Just Intonation version, but that might be purely psychological. Of course, part of the problem might be that I am playing them in my carpeted, curtained, upholstery filled back room. (I know, how can I expect to be taken seriously as an artist when I live so decedantly, but I'm a slave to those creature comforts). Perhaps if I took my laptop down to the local cathedral, plugged it onto a couple of big speakers and then let rip I would find it easier to tell the difference! Not sure what the bishop would feel about that! In any case Grateful, whomsoever you may be and wheresoever you may be, I'd be very interested to here about your results.

Ken

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #26 –
Hello Ken,

In an earlier message you said that you understood the argument for just intonation but not the argument for the other tuning systems.

If you understand just temperament, you will be aware of the comma of pythagoras, the little interval left over after a complete cycle of the circle of fifths. Well the other tuning systems are various attempts to absorb the comma of pythagoras. Just intonation is, in fact, not a very practical tuning system, especially for fixed interval instruments like keyboard instruments and the tuning of these is inevitably a compromise. Equal temperament is one such compromse which sets every interval more or less equally out of tune. Other tuning systems are based round ensuring key intervals are either in tune or only marginally out. These key intervals are normally thirds and fifths which are the foundations of harmony. Quarter comma meantone, a common system in earlier times puts certain  thirds in tune and the fifths marginally "out".  The result is you can play in keys close to C-major and be well in tune but stray too far from this (The limit is about three sharps or flats) and you start to sound horribly out of tune. I once heard a demonstration of this on a spinet tuned to quarter comma meantone. The person concerned played a G-major, then a Ab-major chord in succession. The G-major chord was fine, but the Ab-major was a horrible cacophony!

Geoff

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #27 –
Not much connection with music, but ---  the old generating station in the town has long gone; the new large electricity generating complex at Drakelow still exists the cooling towers very visible despite the trees, which it was said when it was being planned would hide them.
There were many different odours associated with the town, the breweries of course, the maltings, which sometimes overcooked the grain with a characteristic smell, the rubber factories - Pirelli still exists - and plants converting spent grain to cattle food.
The combination of brewery and rubber factory could also be experienced in Edinburgh, near Haymarket.

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #28 –
Hi Geoff,

thanks for engaging with me on this one. Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I should have been. I do understand how the Equal Temperance tuning system works, and I understand that the argument was won 200 and whatever years ago with the Well Tempered Clavier - the point being that all 48 Preludes and Fugues can be performed without needing to retune the piano (clavier) and they all sound reasonably in-tune. But when I was reading up on the Just Intonation tuning system it made a real connection for me. As you might imagine, as an engineer, I have on more then one occasion found myself working in the proximity of some piece of plant that is emitting a highly resonant low hum. When that happens, I almost involuntarily find myself humming to myself, making up little tunes. When I am doing that, I guarantee that I am using Just Intonation - not because I lay any claims to be being a good singer, but because the very thing that is stimulating me to do that is the overtones ringing through my head. Fred Nachbaur's utility offers no fewer than 16 different tuning systems. I think I gather that at least some of these are about the authentic performance of early music. I quite understand and accept the value of authentic early music, but it was not the source of my interest. My understanding is that Just Intonation is a current and relevant issue. If a singer, or a violinist is being accompanied by a piano, that will tend to constrain them to Equal Temperance. But if a group of singers are singing A Cappella or a violinist is playing unaccompanied or as part of a string group, they will naturally tend to use Just Intonation - not necessarily as a conscious decision, but because of the phenomenon of overtones and undertones. One of those web articles I referred to mentioned brass instruments as being the ones for which Just Intonation is particularly relevant. But my understanding is that brass players can very their intonation with Embouchure. As I understood it, it is woodwind instruments that have no option but to use Just Intonation. And indeed, not only Just Intonation, but only for the keynote for which they are tuned. So, in other words, an E flat clarinet does not only transpose, it is also only truly in tune when the key is E flat!

In any case, I am sure you can understand why I wanted to conduct some experiments, and why I thought the subject might interest others. One of the web articles I read suggested trying it out by stretching a string tight over a sounding board. Perhaps you can understand why I felt that using NWC might be more precise! It is over 400 years since Newton discovered gravity. But sometimes it is worth repeating the experiment for yourself, letting go of the apple and seeing that it really does fall. I've done my experiments and reached my conclusions: The Johann Sebstian Bach chappie knew what he was talking about. I understand that he was quite good, you know.

Ken

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #29 –
Tony: Thanks!

Ken: That is why our choir does most of the rehearsing without a piano. Only a pitchfork is used.
It is also a reason why barbershop singers often tend to do well in contests: they sing in natural harmony. And are trained to do so, quite often. (I do not sing barbershop, but my wife and daughter do.)

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #30 –
Yes Tony, believe it or not, I can connect with your memories of Edinburgh as well. My mother is from Edinburgh and when my grandparents were alive, I used to be a regular visitor there. They lived quite close to the McEwans brewery and I can remember the smell when they were brewing. That was in the 1970s - I wasn't aware of the rubber factory.

Perhaps I can persuade the mysterious Eric of the relevance of this by telling you that I was listening to the Raymond Pajares Box version of Greig's Elegaic melody 'Last Spring' - sequenced using Noteworthy Composer - last night. The connection? Surely one of the greatest musical expressions of feelings of nostalgia.

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #31 –
...on more then one occasion...
...on more than one occasion...
...brass players can very their intonation...
...brass players can vary their intonation...

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #32 –
G'day Ken,
I've found this discussion most interesting.  Unfortunately my time is currently at a premium so I am unable to put much effort into studying things, but I will follow things up later

Lawrie
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #33 –
Hi Nan K

Ever suffered from a little late night dyslexia? Although looking at the time of that post, perhaps it was more a case of at-work-really-ought-to-be-getting-on-with-something-else dyslexia. Anyway, I can’t believe you picked me up on my typos and you didn’t pick Rob up on his mistake. I have the most wonderful vision of Rob stood in front of his choir, trying to get them to pitch an accurate note, while they are all wondering why the hell he is waving a bale of hay in the air!

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #34 –
The thought had occurred to me. To make sure, I looked up pitchfork in a dictionary. It lists both (barbershop singers don't have the confusion, they use a pitchpipe - never seen one of those on the farm) so it seemed a possible word to use. Tuning fork, then? English is full of homonyms, and just picking one meaning, as a reader, does nothing to prove that the writer used a wrong word.
I envisaged myself waving the wrong type, to be sure! I always play around with words (and numbers - I am surprised that you did not correct me when I should have said that 2 ^ 10 = 1024. I erred again and said 2 ^12!)

But this pseudonym user Nan K should get a life. To begin with: BUY Noteworthy.

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #35 –
Yeah, I'm sure you are right Rob, I have never heard the term used in that context, I associate pitchforks with the farm, but I do you an injustice. Nonetheless, you have to admit, it's a great vision! Neither am I insensitive to the fact that, as a Dutchman, your English is so good, when I am a member of the European nation most notoriously poor at learning anyone else's language.

I did spot the 1k one, but after my earlier display of poor social skills, I decided that was one piece of pedantry that I should let pass. It is an interesting mix of the binary and decimal numbering systems this kilo, mega, giga business isn't it?!

Re: Equal Temperance and Just Intonation

Reply #36 –
Hi Lawrie,

needless to say, I would be very interested to hear your comments. I quite understand that might have to wait a while.

I continue to wonder about how justifiable the trouble it would take to sequence a more complex piece in Just Intonation would be. Though the difference between the Equal Temperament and Just Intonation versions of those Bach Chorales was not obvious to me, as Rob suggested, even to the musically uninitiated, his choir make a more pleasant, more thoroughly satisfying sound when they sing Just Intonation, and so it follows that you might want to take that trouble when sequencing something of, say, a choral nature. Another thought did occur to me about that earlier discussion between Rob and I about the significance of a single point on the pitch bend scale: I don't know if the resolution of the oscillator is even coarser than that, such that even variations of a greater magnitude than one would actually have no effect on the actual frequency produced. Perhaps that's a matter of the quality of your MIDI instrument / PC sound card.

The technique suggested by those John Sankey files is also interesting - though I have latterly realised the key point that, of course, he didn't sequence those files, did he? He recorded himself actually playing them. How he assigned each degree of the chromatic scale to a different MIDI channel is another question, but the point is that though that idea means that you only need a single pitch bend MPC control per staff, if you were going to sequence it by hand that way, you are going to have to enter an awful lot of rests and I'm not sure that in the end it would be any more practical that way.

Maybe the only practical solution is to await the full release of NWC2 and then think about that VBA macro I mentioned. I suppose the ultimate would be Fred Nachbaur's utility, updated to VB and set up such that, having made all the selections and completed your setup, the result could be applied to a text file export of a NWC2 part ready for re-import. Even then, I quite accept that it might be that the achievable difference in the sound of playback just doesn't justify that much trouble.

As I said, I'll be very interested to hear your thoughts, if and when you have a moment.

Incidentally, another utterly inconsequential digression – I did see your biog details. I had the pleasure of a spell working at a paper mill near Devonport on the north coast of Tasmania. Had Christmas dinner among the walnut trees in the mill manager’s garden. Not recommended in the UK!

Ken