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Topic: wish list entry re hairpins (Read 10937 times) previous topic - next topic

wish list entry re hairpins

Now that my hairpins are no longer vertically challenged (thanks, Michael and Ewan), I have another hairpin-related request. Could NWC2's hairpins actually change the volume of held notes during playback? This problem exists with standard cresc/decresc commands as well. NWC will only change the volume for new note entries - it doesn't sweep the volume down or up on held notes (e.g., a hairpin going from mf to p over a whole note doesn't work; the same hairpin over four quarter notes works fine). There is a workaround with multipoint controllers, and I suppose you might be able to do something with hidden and muted notes on a layered staff (I haven't tried), but it seems as though the program should simply enter the volume sweep itself.

William Ashworth

Re: wish list entry re hairpins

Reply #1 –
Yes, they can - if you over ride both velocity and volume in the Dynamic properties box. The velocity of both start and finish dynamics should be the same - the value of the higher dynamic - then reduce the volume of the lower dynamic. Don't forget to reset the staff volume afterwards.

example: f>p would be f(92,127) > p(92,45) - that is assuming you are using the nwc default values.

Re: wish list entry re hairpins

Reply #2 –
Thanks, Tina - that's much easier than using multipoint controllers. But I still think that NWC should be making those changes itself. I know just enough programming to be stupid, but it does seem as though it should only take a few lines of code to automate the process, which as you describe (and I have now tried) is pretty cut and dried.

William Ashworth

Re: wish list entry re hairpins

Reply #3 –
But you wouldn't want that behaviour with a piano or guitar for instance.

Re: wish list entry re hairpins

Reply #4 –
Well, no, but you wouldn't normally put a hairpin over a held note for a those instruments, anyway, because the sound fades away rapidly after the attack in any case. I play both piano and guitar, and I don't recall ever seeing a decrescendo over a held note in music written for either one (a crescendo over a held note for either of them would, of course, be impossible, unless you're messing around with electronic alteration of the sound).

Re: wish list entry re hairpins

Reply #5 –
G'day William,
a crescendo over a held note for either of them would, of course, be impossible...

Actually, I'm sure I read somewhere that good ol' Ludwig van Beethoven did write crescendos on held notes on a piano in one/some of the work(s) that he produced after he went deaf.

Sadly I don't remember which one(s), nor did a quick google search find reference.

Of course, the reference I refer to may have wrong.

Lawrie
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: wish list entry re hairpins

Reply #6 –
Well, I guess you could think the crescendo....

Re: wish list entry re hairpins

Reply #7 –
I guess that's what he did... think it!

Just goes to show though - what an amazing imagination and skill level to be able to create music and write it down without ever actually hearing it (I know he is reported to have felt the vibrations when composing but it's still impressive)!

Lawrie
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: wish list entry re hairpins

Reply #8 –
When I see a crescendo over a sustained note  I raise the piano lid with my free hand. I figure that that must be what the composer had in mind. When the composer is Debussy, I might actually be right.
Registered user since 1996

Re: wish list entry re hairpins

Reply #9 –
If you're using a grand piano, that could be a challenge.  Don't those lids weigh a ton?

Re: wish list entry re hairpins

Reply #10 –
So, Rick, what do you do in the concert hall when the lid is already up? And what if you don't have a free hand? I understand that Bach occasionally played notes with his nose when both hands were busy, but I can't see moving the piano lid that way.

Re: wish list entry re hairpins

Reply #11 –
That Beethoven was profoundly deaf when he wrote his choral symphony probably explains why most sopranos have to screech to reach the high notes!

Re: wish list entry re hairpins

Reply #12 –
....so, anyway (back a bit on topic), we've established that composers do occasionally write crescendi and diminuendi over held notes on instruments (piano, guitar, harpsichord, etc.) whose sound dies out rapidly after the initial attack. We've also established pretty conclusively that no one really knows how to handle these in performance, other than with the Music Man technique ("Now think, men - think!"). So can anyone really see a problem with NWC's playback doing for hairpins over held notes what it already does for hairpins over runs? I think the very few times when that behavior would cause a problem could be handled by the kind of override we now have to do for dynamic changes on held notes in winds and strings, which are much more common (e.g., in the string quartet I'm currently working on).

- William Ashworth

Re: wish list entry re hairpins

Reply #13 –
It would require dynamic volume in addition to dynamic velocity in the itree structure (and instrument patch)
I put this in the wish list a while ago. Perhaps if more people added their voices......?

In the meantime, to understand the difference between velocity and volume (as they affect nwc) see

http://www.keyboard-creations.co.uk/Dynamics.pdf

Tina