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Topic: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts (Read 41157 times) previous topic - next topic

Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

As I say, mostly OT, but I just don't know another place to ask...

In reading over some of the old posts, I have gotten interested in trying either SynthFont or Timidity++ to enhance playback of some NWC-generated MIDI files.  I don't aspire to anything fancy, at least to start with.  I read that SynthFont is the simplest to set up and use, so I will probably start with that.  Reading further, I note that several recommendations were made for using Merlin as a good, general-purpose soundfont.  After a bit of search, I find that Merlin is available at midi-contest.com.  The problem is there must be a half-dozen or so versions of Merlin posted there.  Soooo..., finally, can someone please recommend which version of Merlin would be most suitable for general use?  I think that I have plenty of computer horsepower, HD space, and DSL so these should not be issues.  Mostly I am looking for something that sounds reasonably good, without replacing individual instruments, and is easy to setup.  What I have read may be a bit dated and something more suitable may now be around...

In case you haven't guessed it by now, I know almost nothing about what I am setting out to do... Any comments would be most appreciated.

CDon

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #1 –
'Big Merlin' is on Hammer. There are several others there that are excellent and large. My present default is 'Bennetng-Another'. These work well with a SB live. With Synthfont you can choose to assign  individual instruments to different soundfounts so you can pick what you prefer. Some of the samples are extremely good and with my aging ears I can hardly tell them from the real thing. Synthfont does an incredible job. For checking orchestral input we have taken to burning its wave files to CD and playing them back on the household stereo; they sound amazingly real.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #2 –
G'day CDon,
there are many relatively good soundfonts out there, Merlin is one I like... The thing is, what you are looking for is really a matter of personal taste.  Certainly many of us could say don't use this font or that font because it has limited range on the whatever instrument or the brass sounds lousy etc., but at the end of the day you need to listen for what you prefer.

Kevin's suggestion of "Big Merlin" is a good one.  I personally use "Merlin GM Pro V9.20" when I do use the Merlin font.  I think it is the one contained in "Big Merlin" on Hammersound, but I'm not completely sure.

I also highly recommend S.Christian Collins "GeneralUser GS".  The version I currently have is "1.4 Beta 3".  Available from http://www.schristiancollins.com/soundfonts/

His current release version (1.35) is available at: http://www.sccmusic.250x.com/

Hmm - seem to have over emphasised this one... Anyhow...

Personal taste, always personal taste - I downloaded over a Gigabyte of fonts to try before I gave up - "Merlin" and "GeneralUser GS" are the ones I was most satisfied with, then I discovered the Yamaha Softsynth...

Lawrie
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #3 –
Thank you Kevin and Lawrie... I have done a lot more looking today, and my goodness at the choices!

Lawrie, you said: "I downloaded over a Gigabyte of fonts to try before I gave up - "Merlin" and "GeneralUser GS" are the ones I was most satisfied with, then I discovered the Yamaha Softsynth..."

I was afraid of something like this... Ah well, it will give me something to do this winter and thank goodness for DSL.  As a matter of interest, I see that you both refer to 'Big Merlin' on the HammerSound site, but they sure seem to have it well hidden.  I can't find it there at all.  I do find a number of different versions of Merlin on the Midi-Contest site, but none of the version names/numbers match your references (Probably just changed with time.)  Where does HammerSound keep their 'wizard'?  Behind smoke and mirrors? :-)

Is there an 'official' release site for Merlin?

CDon

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #4 –
Oops...

Where does HammerSound keep their 'wizard'? Behind smoke and mirrors?

Hmm, looks like it.  Shoulda checked I guess, I've just looked and can't find him :)  Sorry

Is there an 'official' release site for Merlin?

I think its the midi-contest site you've already found - they seem to be being constantly tweaked.

I found another font at midi-contest called "My Own 1.2FE" - the MP3 sample sounds OK so I'm gonna give it a go - I'll let you know what I think.

Lawrie
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #5 –
Ok folks,
just gave three new sound fonts a very short audition...

Merlin_elite - Not bad - guitars a bit loud - don't like the brass
Merlin_vienna - also not bad - guitars a bit loud - don't like the brass
My Own - Good "voice" patch - guitars a bit loud - still don't like the brass

Brass: maybe I'm being overly fussy...

Remember - this was a very quick and dirty audition - All three aren't bad, the Merlin_vienna is probably just a tad ahead of the other 2 overall, but the "My Own" definitly has the best voice patch.

Never the less, I think I'll stick to the GS 1.4 mentioned in a previous post,  that is when I'm not using the Yamaha softsynth - would LOVE to see the Yamaha sounds in a font!

Lawrie
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #6 –
Thank you for the additional information... I believe that I have enough now to get started.  I think that I will start with SynthFont plus Merlin Vienna, My Own, and GeneralUser GS.  Then maybe compare to some of the smaller SFs.  Anyway, these should be sufficient to a least figure out how to use SynthFont.

Based on the MP3s, I believe that I prefer My Own to Merlin.  The Merlin drums are a bit loud for my preference... I prefer that drums be 'sensed' rather than heard :-)  Like you said Lawrie, it is indeed a matter of personal taste (and likely the physical difference in individuals' hearing.)

Lawrie, what version of the Yamaha Softsynth are you using?

CDon

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #7 –
S-YXG50 - I'd like to upgrade to 100 but it doesn't work on XP :( - and I can't seem to find it available to purchase anywhere anyway :((

Lawrie
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #8 –
Thank you Lawrie.  Now, off to my mission...

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #9 –
Lawrie, the S-YXG 100 is an earlier version that came out before Win XP for use on Win 95 and 98.  It also contained an emulation of Yamaha's VL physical modeling synth that plays only monophonic wind instrument voices.  The S-YXG 50 is the last version of Yamaha's softsynths before they discontinued them, rewritten to work on the WDM (Windows Driver Model) that is how Win 2000 and XP handle their sound.  So, contrary to logic, moving from 50 to 100 is not an upgrade in this case.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #10 –
G'day Milton,
thanks for the info.  I had thought I'd read somewhere that the 100 had some improved sounds and additional patches to the 50 but it was late at night and I wasn't paying that much attention.  Perhaps it was the other way 'round.

I do know that there is only 1 release of the 50 that works on XP but I don't know if prior releases worked on 2k.

Hopefully M$ will maintain WDM for a while - goodness knows what "longhorn" is gonna change... :(
I really don't wanna lose this synth - I haven't found a sound font that comes even close.

Lawrie
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #11 –
Hi CDon and others,
thanks to a suggestion by David W on the NG I've downloaded a good soundfont to check out.

Initial listening has proved quite favourable

It is:
AirFont 340, v1.01
Copyright 2004 by Milton Paredes

For those who are interested it is available at (the Hammersound link is wrong):
http://www.ts-central.com/sounds.php You'll need to scroll the box a bit, use the "AirFont 340" link...

The download is nearly 40 Meg, the font itself is 78 Meg.

I am using it in place of my copy of S Christian Colins GS font for the moment.  I'll post an update in a couple of days.

Lawrie
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #12 –
Lawrie:

Check out the sound of the 8mb Chaos soundfont on my old AWE32 here http://users.tpg.com.au/btgraham/files/Harveys.mp3
(A small segment - about 600k at 128 Kbps).

MIDI output recorded directly from the mixer as an mp3.

It's only a small SF but it has the best saxes I've heard.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #13 –
G'day Barry,
I think you've mentioned this one before.  For a little font it's not bad.

I went looking and found it on Hammer - I presume it's the same one.  Saxes are _good_ as you say, but as usual, I'm not _that_ happy with the brass - maybe I'm just being unrealistic...

Thanks for the heads-up,
Lawrie
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #14 –
A short progress report (Well, I care):

I have installed SynthFont and four sound fonts (thus far).  It was all very straight forward and went without a hitch, my compliments to the programmers.  I must say, sound fonts are most fascinating!  Of course, I don’t know yet which I like the best (even out of the four), and I will no doubt be checking out some others.  This evaluation process evokes thought of the ‘old Chinese proverb’: “A man with two watches is never sure of the time.”  Anyway, I am off to a start, thanks to the suggestions and recommendations gleaned from this forum.

Lawrie, I was going to buy the Yamaha S-YXG50 Softsynth for comparative purposes, based on your comments, but I guess it has been discontinued too long.  It doesn’t seem to be available anywhere that I can find.  Oh well… I’ve enough to keep me plenty busy as is.

More later…

CDon

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #15 –
Hi CDon,
for the Yamaha try here and click the download link.  It will download from the Yamaha UK site - I think it is a time limited trial - but will at least give you a taste of what I'm talking about.

Otherwise, the Air Font mentioned above is pretty darn close in many respects - I'm fairly impressed with it.  The only thing is the levels of the instruments appears to be down so it doesn't sound as loud as the Yamaha thus if you do a side by side comparo the Yamaha still seems better because it's louder.

As a result of recent "auditioning" I've changed my default setup:
Softsynth - Yamaha S-YXG50
Audigy Synth A - Air Font A340 (was S Christian Collins GS)
Audigy synth B - Chaos 8Mb (was E-mu 8 Mb)

I primarily use the softsynth but the Air Font is very close...

Lawrie
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #16 –
Thank you Lawrie... I'll give the Yamaha a try as well as Air Font and Chaos.  I appreciate your help.

CDon

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #19 –
Don't know if this a bit off-topic.  But...

I know GM or standardized fonts are useful if you want to share your music in MIDI or NWC format.  But as a composer I find standardized fonts kind of y

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #20 –
Sorry the post got cut off..  I know GM/standard soundfonts are useful if you want to share/play music in MIDI or NWC format.  But if you compose music that ultimately gets turned into mp3 or wav, then custom fonts are fantastic.  Atleast that's been my experience.

Is anyone else using custom soundfonts?

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #21 –
Just so that y'all know, the Synthfont forum is also located at www.ts-central.com.  Just click on the "Forum" link off to the left.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #22 –
Many thanks, Lawrie, for the link to the Yamaha softsynth download. I've been looking for this for months! I had it on an old computer, but alas, lost it when i bought a new system.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #23 –
My pleasure Mary, glad to help :)
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #24 –
Hmm.. I don't ever recall having this problem when I previously used the softsynth, but now that i have it, I can't get it to work! It keeps telling me "the device failed to open". Obviously I'm doing something wrong here. Any ideas on what I'm not doing right?

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #25 –
Hi Mary,
if you're using WinXP I think there is a patch update you might need...

Have you run Windows update since installing the synth?  MS have a driver update specifically for the Yamaha.

In the meantime, I'll see if I can find a site for the version I'm running. It seems to be a different point release to the download I pointed you to...

Lawrie
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #27 –
Thanks again Lawrie, but more problems here. The hercules link actually gave me a download, but it wouldn't install.. it told me it couldn't find any compatible devices. :(
I do consistently update my Windows XP - I have automatic updates on, but I'll trot along there now and look for the Yamaha update.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #28 –
Automatic updates only does critical ones, as this is a driver update you have to do it manually.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #29 –
I'm afraid your problem with the Yamaha S-YXG50, installed on XP, may be more fundamental than driver problems. The truth is that the vast majority of downloads that can be found just don't work on XP. In most cases this is because the compressed file contains a damaged data2.cab file. In other cases, it is not the full version, or there are missing files.
This is the version you need:
Yamaha XG SoftSynth S-YXG50 Ver.4.23.14 WDM US-S for Windows XP only
There are very, very few active links for this download that actually work on XP

I can give you one of the very few, here it is:

http://mids.ru/soft/syxg50xp.rar

You may need a copy of Winrar to de-compress it, unless your de-compression software can deal with it.

I have checked this link, it is active, has all the files, and the checksums match my working version for XP

So, log onto any Administrator-type account, de-install any versions already installed, re-boot and install this version by clicking on the Setup file

Hopefully, better luck this time . .

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #30 –
Thanks, both for your help. Frank, this one does have all the files, yes, but of course, it's not a trial version and won't work without a key, which I don't have. I'm abandoning it for now.
Thanks again. :)

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #31 –
Mary - I suggest you look at the contents of the archive - you might find a small present.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #32 –
Be sure to read text files before clicking on Setup

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #33 –
I'm all smiles here, guys. Once again, thank you most sincerely.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #34 –
Hi, I hope it's not too late to reply to this thread, don't know how things are run on this message board.
Anyway, I've been looking for the S-YXG50 Softsynth for quite a bit ( in fact, up until now I always thought 100 was the newer version, so much for common sense, eh? ) and was quite glad when I found this. Unfortunately the link provided by UK Frank also seems to have the damaged Data2.cab file, or it's PowerArchiverPro that can't unpack it, though I doubt it - and I just tested it with WinRar, which lead to the same results. So, could someone please point me towards a working Data2.cab file? I would greatly appreciate that.
And to contribute to the actual theme of the topic, is the soundfont Unison familiar to anyone? I swear, it has some pretty awsome sounding guitar samples and some other good stuff.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #35 –
Amazing, that link is still active, MOD, but i know the mistake you are making.
The first stage is to download the 14578 KB (14.578 MB) file and unpack it with Winrar.
That will produce one SETUPDIR Folder, and 13 files.

Be sure to Read the text files
Do not try to unpack the data1 and data2 cab files, because that won't work, and is unnecessary.
All you have to do is click on SETUP.EXE and the installation process will do the rest.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #36 –
Well, whatever happened, the file size is now 12.1 MB, so something has to be wrong. And I did unpack the entire thing and when it got to Data2.cab it says "There is a CRC error on the file". When I try to install it askes me to insert the disk containing Data2.cab, but since there's no way I can get it out of the Rar file I'm kind of in a dead end.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #37 –
G'day MoD,
perhaps the download failed...  Have you tried downloading the file again?

One thing to be careful of - make sure you have at least twice the free space available on your HDD as the full file takes for the download - I'm sure you have, but this is something guaranteed to cause download problems that are not obvious.

Lawrie
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #38 –
Well, actually it seems like it's one of the dumbest things that can happen on the net. I always just clicked the link instead of right-click-and-saving and it seems to make a difference (I'll know in half an hour...). Amazing that such a tiny detail would matter so much.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #39 –
Wow, I had no idea that my beta file for GeneralUser GS was made public!  Anyway, I have finished version 1.4 now (actually it's been finished for a while, but I just haven't had time to get it online).  You can download it along with the proper EAX settings from my website at:

http://www.sccmusic.250x.com

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #40 –
Thanks Chris, giving it a go now...

Lawrie
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #41 –
Interesting exchanges about XG softsynths - I have finally got a S-YXG50 working but does anybody know what has happened to Yamaha XG soundcards? I have one fitted as standard in a 1998 Dell machine but my new Dell has Soundblaster and I cannot get any sense out of anyone as to why the XG cards seem not to be available anymore.

Is there any other way of playing XG midi files to get identical sound to the XG sound card - Particularly the drum track.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #42 –
Hi to everybody,
I am also really keen on Syxg50,while using win98. Now I am using windows XP and, I had a problem. I found the XP version v4.0, and after I install, the software synth does not work. In the "Control Panel / Device Manager", I see two "yamaha softsynthesizer"s being installed, altough it should have been single.and none of them works. What do you thing about?Could it be from the version?

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #43 –
G'day Ozgur,
I would uninstall the soft synth - twice if possible, then check the link in reply 29 above.  Also read some of the comments that follow...

Lawrie
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #44 –
Hi Lawrie,
Today I am happy,since I found that the link for v4.3 Frank sent is the right solution,it works. The version v4.0 does not work and I do not know.

passing the crackpipe?

Reply #45 –
I spent at least a couple hours today trying to find the yamaha xg softsynth, at some point in my stuggle I bumbled into this thread. I tried to reply to the thread, found that it had moved over to this site so now I'm here and writing this hoping this might help the next guy who ends up here after a couple hours of googling.

I don't know if there will even be a next guy, this thread was started years ago and yamaha has long since taken down the site that this software was once hosted on, as far as I know.

Anyway, it took some work but I found a working copy of the software and now have it installed and working on my xp box. I found the previous stuff in this thread to be well, helpful but not...

Reply #29 has a link to a rar file that contains the installer package in a rar file. It's good but the file that's actually at that url is truncated so the end of it is in fact corrupt and the package is not installable and that sucks.

I found that the file at that url was once complete and good but now it's all screwy and missing a couple megs at the end. I was able to get the original one from the mirror at web.archive.org.

The weird thing is that the file actually got progressively shorter and shorter over a few years. It's also the only copy I found on the web, not one of 'few'. It really seems weird to me that UK frank who wrote reply 29 mentioned that most of the copies floating around are truncated at the end. Like someone is playing an obnoxious practial joke on people that are still looking for this software relic. Hmm. weird.  Whats going on UK Frank?? is it some kind of magic file that tends to truncated itself randomly?

I found the goods here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030714163956/http://www.mids.ru/soft/syxg50xp.rar

Note that the rar has the serial number in it. The package is for XP, and you really should reboot when installing/uninstalling it or you'll end up with problems, probably.

and if you try some of the other files from here: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://mids.ru/soft/syxg50xp.rar
you'll see they all have different lengths.

So I hope that like, clears up this idiotic nonsense. Have a safe and nice day.


Re: Mostly OT: MIDI and Soundfonts

Reply #46 –
G'day bitztron,
you made me curious so I tested the download in reply #29 and it worked fine for me.  The critical files are identical to my install set which works fine...
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.