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Topic: More mutterings vis-a-vis slurs (curvy lines, not the insults) (Read 2407 times) previous topic - next topic

More mutterings vis-a-vis slurs (curvy lines, not the insults)

Still pondering the problem of tweaking the default slur shapes.  An alternative to allowing explicit positioning of the end (and, possibly, mid) points would be to separate the visibility property of the slur from the visibility property of the note which defines its left end point.

While this would not be as clean as allowing (was almost wrote "simply", but I suspect there is nothing simple about it) the user to manipulate the curve directly it would allow one to shape a slur in a different layer using all non-visible, muted notes.  In this case, the "correct" notes would have a never-visible slur, for correct sound, while the default-visible slur would hover over two or more silent, never-visible, notes.

This would, I would guess, result in a minimum addition to the properties associated with the slur.

The main impediment to this would be the possibility that the slur has no independent existence in the representation aside from a value in the "note" item.  If this is so then this value would have to be changed from one bit to two, with three possible values, "slur absent", "slur present and visible", "slur present and not-visible", or three bits, if the four "visibility" values are to be allowed.

An alternative (this being simply a possible instantiation of the "tweak the slur" proposal") would be to add a new value or two to the note representation, minimum (and possibly maximum) distance from the note (stem or head, which ever is on the side which the slur is on) from note to slur.  Zero would be treated as a "don't care", as is the case with stem length.  One could then push or pull points on the slur away from or towards the notes.  The main question for discussion (and possible experimentation) would be whether to allow inflection points, or what the rules for ignoring user requests in order to maintain monotonic second derivatives should be.

Yes, I know that monotonic would still allow rather wavy curves, but I'm to far from my calculus to figure out what the exact rules should be, probably a requirement for monotonic first and second derivatives, but I'm not at all sure even that is enough.  Any younger math whizzes around?

Anyway, comments, anyone?

Cyril

Re: More mutterings vis-a-vis slurs (curvy lines, not the insults)

Reply #1 –
Cyril, I discussed this on the private beta test forum, shortly after the new slurs were introduced. I agree that some sort of user modification would be handy. But if not, all is not lost.

There's always the tried-and-true staff layering. You can now create notes with no (invisible) noteheads, and also shrink the stems to oblivion. You can also mute the notes. When you do that, beams (if any) and slurs (if any) are left behind, like the smile on the Cheshire cat.

You can position such "free" beams or slurs by positioning the anhcor notes. Slurs arch in such a way as to jump around any intervening notation object. So, you can place a phantom note in between the anchors (adjusting durations to they align with the real staff notes), and alter the slur curvature by moving the phantom note up or down.

If you want the slur to begin slightly before or after an anchor note, you can attach the slur to short-duration notes.

Agreed, this is a hack. But it works.

Re: More mutterings vis-a-vis slurs (curvy lines, not the insults)

Reply #2 –
I've been doing much of what you are recommending.  I gather you do not use the newsgroup, but I've been posting files with lots of modified slurs.  I haven't (despite Tina's cajolling) switched to no-head almost-no-stem notes, since I don't really care how bad it looks in NWC, I want it to look good in the Viewer/Player.

I have found that is some cases the slur stubbornly ignores what I do and the Print Preview/Viewer display has a different curve that NWC does.

The case I have NOT been able to crack is raising the left end of a slur.  No matter what I do there is a small, but visible, stem-fragment, especially noticable as it flashes red in note-chase!  It is for that case that I am thrashing around with ideas (at best half-baked) for slur control, color control (which turns out not to help), etc.

The rest is easy, if kludgy.

Re: More mutterings vis-a-vis slurs (curvy lines, not the insults)

Reply #3 –
You are correct; I don't use the newsgroup (can't - computer security reasons). Nor does the Player much affect what I do.

Admittedly, the hack does not solve every positioning problem.

Some other programs create slurs as vector drawing objects, with control points directly adjustable by users. That technology is unlikely for NWC2, becuase the interface is much different. Also, it is not really necessary. Elsewhere, I suggested that a dialog-box method of moving endpints up or down, and a center height and flatness, might be all that is needed.