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Topic: page break option (Read 5688 times) previous topic - next topic

page break option

nwc should have the option to force page breaks,
not just system breaks

Re: page break option

Reply #1 –
I have found that judicious use of the bottom margin and stave heights gives me some control over page breaks.

Re: page break option

Reply #2 –
but I want it to have settings for every page

Re: page break option

Reply #3 –
I don't understand your problem.  A system break should be sufficient, should it not?  Is it that you are trying to leave extra "white space" at the bottom of the page?  This is usually something to be avoided.  The only thing I really need added to system break capabilities is "Indent after Forced System Break."  That way, after a D.S. al Coda (or a D.C.), the first line of the Coda will look the way it should.
You wouldn't believe the workaround I've developed for this.  I don't want to do it anymore...

Re: page break option

Reply #4 –
Why do we want forced page breaks?  It's to make page turns as easy on the musician as possible.  It's nice for players of instruments that require two hands if the page turns coincide with rests.

The idea of an indent after a forced system break is nice for codas as you like them to be, but it would need to be an option, since not everyone would like to have it.

Re: page break option

Reply #5 –
actually, I meant something like
"measures per system for each system" and
"systems per page for each page" and
maybe different margins for each page

Re: page break option

Reply #6 –
reply for Baruukh: no, I don't want the blank
space at the end, but a forced page break
with the systems justified

Re: page break option

Reply #7 –
...to make page turns as easy on the musician as possible
...a forced page break with the systems justified
Can't these things be done with the Forced System Break?
I make page turns coincide with rests whenever possible, using only the Forced System Break.

The idea of an indent after a forced system break is nice for codas as you like them to be, but it would need to be an option, since not everyone would like to have it.
I guess I should have written ...added to system break possibilities...
I obviously wouldn't want to indent after every forced system break, only the one that starts the Coda.

Re: page break option

Reply #8 –
Reply for User111 - nice ideas.  Please visit the wish list and post them there.
http://www.noteworthysoftware.com/composer/wishlist.php

Reply for Baruukh: "...to make page turns as easy on the musician as possible" "Can't these things be done with the Forced System Break?"

No.  The problem lies within your words "whenever possible."  You can force a system break, but unless there isn't room below it for the next system, the system break doesn't force a page break.  When you fiddle with the margin size or staff separation (upper and lower sizes), they affect the whole file, not just the page which you wish to have end at the optimum spot.

Re: page break option

Reply #9 –
Aaahh.  Now I see where you're coming from.  I have [abbr=unless I didn't include enough rests in the parts to begin with, in which case, there are NO good places for page turns, but that's another story...]always[/abbr] managed to accomplish what I need with the Forced System Break, but there have been times when a Forced Page Break would have been more useful.
Okay, folks, to the WishList!

Re: page break option

Reply #10 –
reply for Baruukh:

the option for the indent really should be
for system breaks instead of page breaks,
that way, you can print something like
start another movement on the blank space
at end of the page

Re: page break option

Reply #11 –
I've been using a work-around for some time now to get simulated page breaks.  Find where you want the page to break (usually after work-around multi-bar rests).  Force a system break there.

Then, you need to add whole systems that are empty, each with a system break at the end.  Add a couple of invisible semibreve (whole note) rests, and, importantly, some "invisible" text.  I use a string of spaces in the Title font, with "preserve width".  You must use preserve width.

On the first of your extra systems, add a clef and key signature and make them invisible.  On the first system of the new page, add the clef and key signature, visibly this time.

The draw-back to this system is that is ruins the automatic bar (measure) numbering.  But since I mainly print instrumental parts for theatre music, the numbering is usually stuffed before I start, and has to be done manually anyway.  If you want to use auto-number, you might be able to replace som earlier bar lines with graphic versions.

The other draw-back is that you get empty systems.  This isn't too bad for single staff instruments, buts looks dreadful for multi-staff instruments.  But at least the player can turn the page!

Another way to deal with the page-turn problem is to force system breaks much earlier in the page, so that by the time the player gets to the bottom, there are some convenient rests.

I do agree a force page break function would be good!

Re: page break option

Reply #12 –
Last year there was some chat about forcing page breaks - which I, too, think is a Good Idea - including some helpful comments from Ewan.

Of course, one obvious way to achieve a page break is to start a new File at the relevant point - or, with an old File, copy it, and erase one copy from that point on and the other up to that point - though that's not as neat as forcing a break!

One point I didn't see mentioned in Ewan's suggestion was what you do about the bar line at the right-hand ends of the empty system staves.  Really, there shouldn't be any - so the Player knows each staff is truly empty, just like lined paper with nothing in the line.  To achieve this the next bar line - the one after the inserted "preserve width" spaces and the invisible rest (which needs to be of an appropriate length if the File is to play as well as print), and thus the one before the first visible clef (or whatever) after the page break - should itself be made invisible as well as forcing a new system.  This, together with the invisible clef, key and time signature at the start of the empty line, means the line is open at both ends, just as you want.

And in fact if you do it like this you don't need the inserted spaces at all (what they were probably doing for Ewan was to push the bar line at the end of the staff off the printable page); all that's necessary, really, is that between the two system break bar lines there should be some musical notation (though I don't see why) ... and an invisible rest is best.

So - and preferably for each staff:- after the last note before the page break have a visible bar line forcing a system break, followed by an invisible clef, key and time info, followed by an invisible rest, then an invisible break-forcing bar line, and finally a visible clef, key and time info.

Re: page break option

Reply #13 –
Yes, you're right.  I'm not sure what I was thinking.  I only add invisible text if one piece finishes with a short line, and I'm following on with another piece.  But usually I'll add system breaks so that the first piece finishes with a whole line.

For page-turns, it would be confusing to the reader to have short lines (which might be read as the end of the piece), so I make a major effort to have a whole line just before the turn, even if it's just a multi-bar rest.

You're also right about ending bar lines in the extra staves.  They're always invisible.  But I'm stuck with a visible bar line at the start, because I use layering.

I need to have bar numbers in every bar. Theatre parts have usually been chopped and changed over time, so sometimes bar numbers are missing, or extra bars are inserted.  You can have 29, 30, 30A, 30B, 31, 32.  (It seems to be a cardinal sin to re-number!)  In rehearsal, you need to know exactly which bar is being spoken about, and auto-numbering doesn't let you have variations.  (Now, if you could re-start auto-numbering in any bar with a value of your own choosing, and have letter suffixes...  off to the wish-list!)

The easiest way to get this is to have the numbers on their own staff, and layer (because I then just copy from a template, and then - after editing - copy to a "numbers" line for every part.)  I'm also layering cues, and notes that must be step-up and stem-down, and overlapping rhythms, so I get the line at the start of each staff.  It's just something I'm prepared to live with.

Re: page break option

Reply #14 –
Forced page breaks are a necessity.
All my output is printed, but not from NWC. So I force page breaks by choosing the bar, setting the system break then inserting visible strings of 'xxxx.." after preserving width, sufficient to push the system onto a new page. This means sometimes having several copies for the same work but that's fairly harmless. I am finding keeping the printing separate from notation entry gives a lot more flexibility.

Re: page break option

Reply #15 –
Starting a new file works pretty well for format choices like putting page turns where you want them.  You can set the files after the first one to have no headers, and start the bar numbers and page numbers where you like. At an even fussier level, you can adjust "mirror margins" and things to get the right look.