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Topic: Special characters in fonts (ie: shape notes, etc) (Read 10199 times) previous topic - next topic

Special characters in fonts (ie: shape notes, etc)

Oh, I suppose... if someone were to ask REALLY nice, I might be persuaded to create a .ttf set with some of the special characters people are asking for like trill signs, "finger snapping notes" (the x with a stem) etc.... There are only a handfull of these missing, so if they were CREATED already, maybe, JUST MAYBE Noteworthy would add them to their special font that is already supplied with composer. I have a need for some special repeat symbols when doing single parts from orchestra scores. I guess if I do the dirty work, it's more likely to get done, huh?

Any request, send 'em to me and I'll try to put some together in the next couple of weeks. True Type fonts are quite easy to create.

John E. Peterson

Re: Special characters in fonts (ie: shape notes, etc)

Reply #1 –
Let's hope you haven't bitten off more than you can chew...

My personal wish list (and it is my fervent wish that they WOULD be incorporated into the NWC font, for portability... are

a) arpeggio (you know, the vertical squiggly line). This would need to be in several sizes, say 4 lines, 5 lines and six lines long.

b) trill sign (the horizontal squiggly line). Should be able to be placed end to end (like sausages!) to make longer ones.

c) Percussion notes would need up and down flags for at least quarter, eighth, and sixteenth notes (really, this is a "head-job", so to speak).

d) Assorted length/direction hairpins for cresc/decresc, but I would hope that Eric's already working on that. (Cross fingers).
Marsu from France did this with post processing on PostScript files quite a while ago. See the forum archives for a description.
Again, this is something best done in software.

PS: Some of these signs already exist in fonts out there. Only they're not all in one font, except for some copyright fonts.

Regards,

Andrew

Re: Special characters in fonts (ie: shape notes, etc)

Reply #2 –
This sounds great! If I understand correctly, these symbols
would be inserted using the Text command. But if the
Noteworthy font is used, we will then be unable to write
characters. I think it might be better to pick a standard
text font (eg. Arial), and replace the special characters
with the musical symbols. You could dump in the entire
Noteworthy font.

Creating TT fonts is easy? Is there software equivalent to
NWC for doing this?

Re: Special characters in fonts (ie: shape notes, etc)

Reply #3 –
Flute and Horn players (and clarinet to some extent) are bugging me about the short length of the note stems when the notes go well above and below the staff. Seems like anything above high E and anything below low F. They would like to see a longer note stem which they say makes it easier to read. I don't know how to impliment this, but it is a wish. Any way of adding an extension?

Re: Special characters in fonts (ie: shape notes, etc)

Reply #4 –
Coreldraw has the ability to export TT fonts.
Although it seems that you can only define the first 127 characters.
I hope someone can correct me on this.
I did post a font in the newsgroup before Xmas, BOXES.zip, to add boxed letters, multibar rest, repeat and beat marker symbols that may prove useful - and I hope to add more marks to this font in time but I'm beginning to doubt the merit of this approach.
There are another 128 characters that can be accessed by holding down ALT while typing in the ASCII code for the character.
Like ALT/0176 for the diminished or degree symbol for example.
So there is space above the normal set for music symbols if these where added to the NWC font but it would need to be engineered at the NWC end.
Using fonts to add marks to a NWC score does create problems.
You need either a note or a rest to hang them on.
If you make a beat marker / or a rhythm notehead as text to add chords to you still need a measure rest in each bar or the text spills out of the display.
There is a big heap of text characters piled up on my desk just to the right of the screen!!!!
The real answer is to provide the marks in software - and thats a big ask - probably means starting from scratch.
We know this feature is implemented in other software but what does it cost you.
We all have Porsche appetites on a VW income which is probably why we are here.
In the meantime I'll add the marks by hand.
Anyone need the services of a gun copyist????

Re: Special characters in fonts (ie: shape notes, etc)

Reply #5 –
Good on you guys!

BTW is there a NTW mailing list?

Re: Special characters in fonts (ie: shape notes, etc)

Reply #6 –
I only ask if there is a NTW mailing list as I would like to know about any info to NTW straight away.
Also because we could discuss in much greater detail with a mailing list.

JUST wondering! :-)

Re: Special characters in fonts (ie: shape notes, etc)

Reply #7 –
True Type characters are easy to create (I use Corel as obviously does Barry Graham). Of course I'm a computer nerd with CAD background and a programmer by trade.

ACTUALLY, using a TT font is much more common than one might expect even in the OTHER softwares. You just don't realize what they have done! The TTF files are buried in the .exe or a .dll. Literal DRAWING of notes, etc requires absolutely HUGE overhead in software and is VERY VERY slow compared to simply using SCALEABLE tt fonts. If it is a windows music package, it is almost gauranteed that they are using a ttf or other similar font. If you don't, scaling (size) and indirection (print to ANY device) becomes almost impossible.

No, no NTW mailing list. BUT! Just because THEY don't have one doesn't mean that a LIST can't be started.

Clarinet players with short notes? Use a bass clarinet. It's longer anyways.... (ha ha). Flute players? I assume you mean ledger line notes since 8va isn't directly supported. Hmm..... Does a Pic use something like 80va? Or do their ledger lines simply extend to the ceiling? (as in "Mr Conductor... What note is the 57th ledger line above the staff?")

Oh... and inserting the things I'm talking about as text? Nope. If NWC won't add the code, this stuff is almost useless. Multibar Rests for instance. Just printing the text in one measure to indicate 10 measures of rest will skew you with everyone else. And NWC won't play 10 measures of rest. It HAS to be coded. I'm just suggesting creating the fonts to make NoteWorthy's job easier. (ha ha -- THIS is the EASY part anyway!).

There seems to be just a handfull of critical (to orchestral work) items missing. If we form a gang, and threaten, MAYBE?

I should note --- Beth has always been VERY good about answering mail, but always suggests putting this stuff in the wish list box. I've been putting some of these there for well over a year. And the messages HERE tend to indicate many others requesting the same things. Sigh.... Maybe if we offered to send in some little programming elves at night?

John

Re: Special characters in fonts (ie: shape notes, etc)

Reply #8 –
Blair,

I assume you are talking about the ability to more or less simply type a character and drag/drop it at ANY postion on the page? That WOULD be nice. I haven't used the "insert your own text" function so I don't know how well (or badly) it performs.

I would LOVE to use the newsgroup, but my server doesn't carry it!

John

Re: Special characters in fonts (ie: shape notes, etc)

Reply #9 –
David, don't forget the newsgroup. It is much easier to carry on to-fro discussions there, and can be read off-line with most useful news programs.
John is right. Multi bar rests really need to be coded by NWC, as they should only occur where all parts in a VIEW have them lined up. Otherwise you'll NEVER get all the parts to line up.
When you think about it, a multibar rest is only used when one or at most two staffs (okay, maybe a section) are being shown/printed. Otherwise they make no sense at all. ie, if people only get multi bar rests 'cos someone else is playing. So on a full score, you need to expand the multibar rests anyway.
I think your text idea though does have merit as a stop gap in that users can then delete nine bars of rests and put in a multibar rest.

Re programming for him. Yes, it seems there are several of us willing. If only Eric would send us the stub code and the interface spec, we could add all these neat little features...
I truly wish Eric would take on another programmer, but then he probably wishes to have enough income so that he can eat... :-)

Cheers,

Andrew

Re: Special characters in fonts (ie: shape notes, etc)

Reply #10 –
We seem to be talking about several different things in this
discussion. What I am hoping for, and I don't think is too
difficult, is a simple way to place the symbols I want on
the score, using the insert text command. This would be
done by taking a standard text font and adding musical symbols
suggested by Andrew in the second item in this discussion.
It does not solve all problems, and has no effect on playback,
but could easily be done and does not have to involve
Noteworthy.

It would make me very happy.

Re: Special characters in fonts (ie: shape notes, etc)

Reply #11 –
You haven't used insert text? This explains my confusion.
I mainly use it for those non-technical hints at the beginning
of a song, like "Brightly". I have also used it for piano
fingering, and people use it for guitar chords.

The text is tied to a note position, so it can be placed
anywhere on a staff (or above or below it). I never thought of placing it anywhere
on the page. Maybe I could use it to put author information
at the top left corner of the page, like most songs do and
I wish Noteworthy supported. Good idea, I should try this!

The only thing that does not work is placing text between
beamed notes. It breaks the beam. I think this is a bug.
It makes it tough to put piano fingering above each note in
a rapidly played sequence.

So it could be used to place music symbols on the staff. You
would tie it to the previous note, use leading blanks, and
turn on the "preserve width" option. So this is why I want
a standard text font with music symbols added in.

It would be a dream come true.

Re: Special characters in fonts (ie: shape notes, etc)

Reply #12 –
On second thought, we do not need a music notation and text
characters in the same font. Insert Text can use many fonts,
including the four User1 to User4 fonts. So just extending
the Noteworthy font would do the job.

Re: Special characters in fonts (ie: shape notes, etc)

Reply #13 –
You can put symbols between beamed notes if you can squeeze them in by inserting the text at the left of the beamed group and then using spaces to move the position of the text to the right

Re: Special characters in fonts (ie: shape notes, etc)

Reply #14 –
Yes, but it is hard to place them exactly above the notes.
The display does not match the printout. You have to go
back and forth between Print Preview.

It would be better if inserting non-note type obects between
beamed notes did not break the beam.

Re: Special characters in fonts (ie: shape notes, etc)

Reply #15 –
Mulit-bar rests can be acheived by using the Local Repeats. For example:
||: •• :|| (3) Where ||: & :|| are the repeat signs and the (3) is the # to the top right of the closing bar. This will not Show it as one LONG bar wiht a # on top, but it serves the same purpose and is really easy to uinderstand :)

Re: Special characters in fonts (ie: shape notes, etc)

Reply #16 –
I would like to see any chord grid fonts as well. Chords (for guitar) show up in many peices and even just the grid would be useful. Yes, you can tell that it uses fonts because (either in the NWC directory or the Windows Fonts directory) there is a font called nwc15.ttf and if you use this to type text, it is music symbols.

Re: Special characters in fonts (ie: shape notes, etc)

Reply #17 –
Add my name to the list. One of a very few things I'd love to see in Noteworthy.