Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Forcing alignment in measures without a time signature (Read 5198 times) previous topic - next topic

Forcing alignment in measures without a time signature

I am trying to score a chant from a Psalter that does not have measures or a time signature. I have a syncopated alto line that tricks the program into aligning the bass chords with the wrong notes in the treble clef.

Is there a way to force alignment of the bass chords with a particular note or chord in the treble clef?

Re: Forcing alignment in measures without a time signature

Reply #1 –
Insert text, then click on "preserve width" -- insert as many blank spaces as necessary with the space bar

I think this will work for you, if not then someone else can share their wisdom!

Re: Forcing alignment in measures without a time signature

Reply #2 –
Inserting spaces won't change anything as relates to relative note alignment. It will only spread everything out.

NoteWorthy Composer has a keen sense of time, and will always make notes occurring at the same time line up. If your notes are not lining up, then - very simply - you have a timing problem. Perhaps a note that shouldn't be (or should be!) dotted, or a wrong note duration, or an extra (or missing) rest... anything like that.

One other thing that sometimes trips people up is the net duration of chorded notes of different durations. Such a construct will always take the time of the shortest member. If this is problematic, it's best to split the voices into individual lines on different staves, and then layer them.

Re: Forcing alignment in measures without a time signature

Reply #3 –
I guess that's the solution, although I can't do it for this particular score. (I can't separate the parts.)

All the notes all "match up", that is, all the notes in the melody have a corresponding and correct amount of notes in the bass line. The reason I think NWC is lining the bass notes up incorrectly is because I can't make the "extra" notes part of a chord that runs along the alto line.

All the parts are correct, and the values are correct. If I leave the alto line out, everything lines up correctly. I will just have to "flatten" it out (take out the syncopation) until I can figure something else out.

Re: Forcing alignment in measures without a time signature

Reply #4 –
 
If you wish, you may send the file via e-mail for further consideration.

Just remembered... Have you tried inserting hidden time signatures?
 

Re: Forcing alignment in measures without a time signature

Reply #5 –
If someone would like to take a look at it, that would be fine. It's not such a big deal that someone has to take their time with it.

I appreciate the input!

Re: Forcing alignment in measures without a time signature

Reply #6 –
Sarah, let me take a guess....

In SATB church choral, we often come across music (generally a psalm) in which a particular pitch is used for a number of consecutive syllables. Rather than write a note for each syllable, a single note is written, with the understanding that the note applies to however many syllables are in the line. This also avoids problems that occur when verses have different syllable count.

Usually, the single note is a double-barred whole note, but I have seen simple quarter notes, or stemless note-heads, used for that purpose.

If that is your situation, then the solution is simple: In NWC, insert as many rests as is necessary so that the measures align. Then, select (highlight) the rests, right-click, go to properties, and make them invisible. They will still occupy space (aligning the measures), but will not print.

Re: Forcing alignment in measures without a time signature

Reply #7 –
You can use irregular bar lengths, as long as you don't click "Audit bar lines". So you could combine hidden bar lines and hidden rests to make things line up however you wanted. This would make it look right; it might or might not sound exactly as you want to hear it.

Re: Forcing alignment in measures without a time signature

Reply #8 –
Thanks, everyone, for your help! I think the last hint might help. I didn't know I could do hidden bar lines, so maybe I can "fake" out the bass line to line the notes up in the right spot.

I know what you're talking about with the psalms, but that's not exactly what I'm doing. It's not really a chant, it's more of a jig. However, I appreciate your input, because I've wanted to know how to score chants for our school's chapel.

Re: Forcing alignment in measures without a time signature

Reply #9 –
I may not know what I'm talking about here, but if you just want to scoot the bass chords around to match up with other notes, would inserting rests do it? Or do the chords actually sound at the right times, but just don't look right?

Have fun - The Hankster

Re: Forcing alignment in measures without a time signature

Reply #10 –
I don't have audio, so I don't know what NWC would do with this file.

Inserting hidden rests worked; it forced the chords to line up. However, without the rests, there were a correct number of notes - remember, there is no time signature, so there is no set number of beats per measure.

I didn't know you could insert hidden rests. I'm sure if the file played on audio it would sound all weird, but it looks right, and that's all the pianist cares about.

Thanks, everyone! I know where to come if I have a problem with NWC from now on. You've been very helpful.

Re: Forcing alignment in measures without a time signature

Reply #11 –
Just out of curiousity, Sarah, when you say you don't have a time signature, how many beats are you expecting to find in a bar?  Do you expect the same number in every bar?

Even if you don't want to show a time signature, you could enter one and hide it on each staff every time you change the number of beats you want in a bar.

Someone mentioned filling the spaces with hidden rests. That is what I've used most often.  You can go down to very minute rests if you need to, like 64th's, and if that isn't good enough to line everything up, you can dot it to add the value of a 128th, or double dot it to add the time value of a 256th.  You can even play around with a hidden triplet for even finer tuning.  But I'm having too much fun with this, it's time to stop.

Re: Forcing alignment in measures without a time signature

Reply #12 –
Sorry I didn't check the forum sooner!

The hidden rests worked perfectly. Actually, inserting a time signature probably would have messed it up worse. I would have had to force hidden measures all over the place. The program was assigning the beats properly, but there was no way to tell it that a note was supposed to be is that the right term?) as a chord member of sorts, but was actually separated on the line. I added quarter-note rests in the bass clef and it "fooled" the software into adding another beat and lining the notes up properly. If I played it on my computer, it would definitely sound whacky. You have to play it on your keyboard from the printout.

Does anyone want me to email it to them so you can see what I'm talking about? It worked wonderfully once I used "The Hankster's" suggestion.

Email me at dugarner@lycos.com if you want me to send you the file, just so you can see what I did and how it worked.