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Topic: Major - Minor ? (Read 6452 times) previous topic - next topic

Major - Minor ?

Ok, stupid question time.  Not being a musician myself but just a music lover, I'm confused about major and minor keys. What (if any) is the differernce in say a song in A flat major and one in f minor?  Both having four flats in the same positions and sounding identical.  No huge problems, just being nosy.

Re: Major - Minor ?

Reply #1 –
Not a stupid question... but a big one. I'll just cover the mere basics, others can take it from there.

Let's take the scale of C major. Start on C, play the white keys in sequence until you hit the next C. You've just played the scale of C major.

Now start the scale on A. Again, play the white keys until you get to the next A. Viola! You've just played the "natural minor scale" in A.

Note that, compared to the A major scale, the third, sixth and seventh notes are lower by one semitone. So, we can generalize this to any major scale; if we lower the 3rd, 6th and 7th notes ("degrees"), we transform it to the natural minor.

There is another very common minor scale called the "harmonic minor", in which case the 7th degree is not modified. That's why you very often see minor pieces with a sharped 7th degree (for example, in A minor, you'll very often have a lot of G#s). Put another way, the key signature "flats" the 7th degree just as it does for the natural minor, but accidentals within the piece "restore" it to an "ordinary" (natural) 7th degree.

Make any sense?

Re: Major - Minor ?

Reply #2 –
...minor pieces with a sharped 7th degree
Please write "raised 7th degree."  In the scale of F harmonic minor, the seventh degree is E natural.  It is not a sharped note, but it is raised a semitone from the key signature.

Re: Major - Minor ?

Reply #3 –
No, actually what I should have said is natural 7th degree. This emphasizes that it remains the same as in the major scale, which is generally used as the starting point.

Pedantry reigns supreme! :)

Re: Major - Minor ?

Reply #4 –
Raised or sharped...whatever. But why? The reason is that in some kinds of music, approaching the root note from one semitone below gives a sense of "finality." This is built into the major scale system (B is a semitone below C). But in the minor scale system, the scale note must be raised a semitone to give the same effect (G is two semitones below A, so to achieve the same sense of B approaching C, we need G# approaching A).

I am certain you will hear more about this...

Re: Major - Minor ?

Reply #5 –
Thanx for the (very) technical answer Fred :-)
However, if (again as in my original question, A Flat Major and F Minor or any other two keys) the flats, sharps and naturals (not literally naturals for the key sigs) are the same in each song how would you tell a major key song from a minor key song by looking at the score? Or is this an idosyncrosy (sp?) of NWC that a song in A Flat Major and F Minor look and sound the same?

Re: Major - Minor ?

Reply #6 –
A Flat Major and F Minor look and sound the same

That is the key (no pun intended). F Minor will sound what we an american would consider "sad." Play it -- you'll hear it. (In Spanish songs, they use minor often for happy.)

Another way to tell is to look at the last note. 9 times out of 10, it resolves to the root of the scale. So you then know the scale name.

Re: Major - Minor ?

Reply #7 –
Thanx Francis I'll give that a try (Playing it that is).
It's SO nice to have actual musicians to ask silly questions to.

And thanx again to Fred for the wonderful technical description.

Re: Major - Minor ?

Reply #8 –
Another way of looking at your question is that the difference between Ab major and F minor is this: the same set of notes, but a different TONIC. The "tonic" note is the home note of a key, sometimes called a "key note". It's a very very powerful thing in music, easier to hear than explain, but the tonic note is the note that sounds and feels like tha home, stable note - the melody doesn't really sound finished unless it ends on the tonic.

Any key signature represents a set of seven pitches, a scale. Which of those pitches is the tonic depends on the MODE. With the four-flat signature, if the melody and chords make you hear F as the tonic, it's in the minor mode, and if you hear Ab as the tonic, it's in the major mode. There are other modes, too (try searching "modes" in this forum), but those are the ones you'll hear the most often.

All the really good questions are simple, and you've opened a real can of worms - the concepts of "melody" and "tonic", whatever you want to call them, are bound up with the most basic and profound things in how music works.

Thanks!

Re: Major - Minor ?

Reply #9 –
Thanx John, I think I'm beginning to get the picture.  It's not the actual notes which would be the same in Ab Major or F Minor, but the melody so to speak; or which of those same notes are the majority of the song.  I'm probably not making much sense but I think I know what I mean (grin).

Re: Major - Minor ?

Reply #10 –
Hmmmm, hit the wrong button.  Meant to add that there would also be a dependency on how many accidentals were in the tune or a lot of sharps as Fred mentioned above.

Gee, I just love worms and this seems like a great big can of 'em.

Re: Major - Minor ?

Reply #11 –
No, actually what I should have said is natural 7th degree. This emphasizes that it remains the same as in the major scale, which is generally used as the starting point.
Well, I can see that Fred is one of those people who like to think of a minor key/scale as compared to its parallel major key/scale.  The original post asks about "a song in A flat major and one in f minor."  As these are relative major/minor (not parallel), the minor key/scale (in this case f minor) should be thought of in its natural form, and the seventh degree should be thought of as being raised (in this case from E flat to E natural) from the key signature.  A good example of accidentals occuring on the seventh degrees is a piece I found in my samples folder called "Caverns of the Heart."  Take a peek.

Re: Major - Minor ?

Reply #12 –
A good example of accidentals occuring on the seventh degrees is a piece I found in my samples folder called "Caverns of the Heart." Take a peek.

Oh, piffle. What does that clown know about music? ;-)