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Topic: the symbol for repeating measures (Read 9464 times) previous topic - next topic

the symbol for repeating measures

I have been looking for a way to insert a repeat sign and I can't seem to find it.  I am fixing a song my band is playing and it repeats one measure for a about 30 measures.  Does anyone know the easiest way to do this without having to copy and paste the same thing for all 30 of those measures?

Re: the symbol for repeating measures

Reply #1 –
go to insert / barline(decorated) / local repeat close then set repeat count to 30

Re: the symbol for repeating measures

Reply #2 –
-Choose the bar line you want to begin the repetition.
-Control+E, then choose Local Repeat Open.
-Choose the bar line you want to terminate the repetition.
-Control+E, choose Local Repeat Close, then select Repeat Count as you like.

Re: the symbol for repeating measures

Reply #3 –
Sorry for the duplication of the same meaning.
I didn't find Simon's before my submission.

Re: the symbol for repeating measures

Reply #4 –
Use the first Boxmarks file - you can download it from the Scriptorium.  Go to http://www.noteworthysoftware.com/composer/userlinks.htm
and choose Noteworthy Scriptorium.

Boxmarks comes in a .zip file, you download it and unzip it using Winzip to your Windows fonts folder.

The symbol you want is found on the shift of the top of the keyboard number 5 key - the percent sign (%).  It doesn't seem to be in the Boxmarks2 newer font file, but maybe it's been added since I downloaded it.

To use it, Alt-F-g for page setup, tab over to fonts, and set one of the user fonts to Boxmarks.

Suggestion - don't use the darned mark 30 times - that's hard on the musician who has to play the chart.  Write the bar out in full every 4th or 6th bar to make it easier for the eye and easier to count.

It would be nice to see a double-repeat bar sign took, but I haven't noticed one yet.

Re: the symbol for repeating measures

Reply #5 –
If by double-repeat bar sign, you mean a bar line that closes one repeated section and opens the next, you can get this by inserting one bar line closing the first repeat and immediately following it with a second bar line opening the second.

Re: the symbol for repeating measures

Reply #6 –
No, I think you're referring to how to make the music playback in NWC?  I'm referring to the symbol used on paper scores that is similar to the one that means "repeat the previous bar," but instead means "repeat the two preceding bars."  The first symbol looks sort of like a percent sign; I'm trying to remember but I think the two-bar repeat sign has two parallel slashes but still only one dot above and one dot below the slashes.

Re: the symbol for repeating measures

Reply #7 –
The Associated Board Guide to Music Theory says:

Single Slash - Repeat group of quavers.
Double Slash - Repeat group of semiquavers.
Triple Slash - Repeat group of demisemiquavers.

These all appear inside the bar after the group to be repeated and add up to the length of the bar.

Slash with dots (like % sign) - repeat whole bar. Each bar to be repeated is shown: | % | % | % |

So far OK. However a double slash with dots represents the repetition of an irregular phrase within a bar and not a repetition of multiple bars.

The repetition of a few bars may be indicated by the word bis with a square bracket over the staff showing the bars to be repeated, but personally I'd find that somewhat confusing.

Re: the symbol for repeating measures

Reply #8 –
...a double slash with dots represents the repetition of an irregular phrase within a bar and not a repetition of multiple bars.
Since when?
The two-bar repeat sign is two parallel slashes with one dot above and to the left of the slashes, and one dot below and to the right of the slashes.  A small 2 is centered above this symbol.  The entire configuration is placed on the barline separating the two measures.
I have a font which contains the symbol, and have been using it for quite some time.  It looks so normal that everyone has been taking it for granted.
 

Re: the symbol for repeating measures

Reply #9 –
I'm just quoting the UK authority on the matter, please don't shoot the messenger.

And in any case it would appear from your example that the indication of two repeated bars is not the symbol (which I assume is acting exactly as I described - a repeat of an irregular figure) but the figure '2' that you mention as placed just above the symbol.

Further, I would assume that a figure '4' with exactly the same symbol underneath it would indicate four repeated bars. Or am I being too simplistic?

Re: the symbol for repeating measures

Reply #10 –
"Shooting the messenger" is not my intent.  I'm just trying to make sure the messenger delivers the proper message.

In Reply 7, you write: ...the repetition of an irregular phrase within a bar and not a repetition of multiple bars.
The symbol I describe in Reply 8 is used for a two-measure phrase (not necessarily irregular) which is to be repeated.  If 2 is considered multiple, then it is a repetition of multiple bars.  The repetition of an irregular phrase within a bar uses slashes without dots (like comping slashes).
The symbols are to be used only for one-measure repeats and two-measure repeats (and, yes, they are two different symbols).  Anything larger than that should be written out (or if large enough, use the Master Repeat Open/Close barlines provided in the program).  Hence, your final assumption is incorrect, and the answer to your question is: Yes, you are being too simplistic.

Re: the symbol for repeating measures

Reply #11 –
"Shooting the messenger" is not my intent. I'm just trying to make sure the messenger delivers the proper message.

The message you would like is obviously not the one the messenger is delivering - nevertheless it is a message delivered from an authoritative source and indicates accepted usage to a sizable proportion of musicians.

On the other hand I have never come across your sytem of symbol usage (which in itself doesn't mean it is incorrect) but it would be helpful if you could quote some authority or source for your assertions.

And I'm sorry for my simplistic suggestions. I was just trying to ascertain whether the two usages could or did have some attributes in common, but I suppose you'd rather prove the other guy wrong than have a meaningful and constructive dialogue.

And actually it wasn't that simplistic. Multiple bar rests have just such a mechanism (admittedly inside the bar itself), and if it doesn't apply to multiple bar repeats too then the figure "2" is pretty redundant really.

Re: the symbol for repeating measures

Reply #12 –
Hey guys, play nice.

The two-bar-repeat sign is commonly used in modern music - I've come across it in pit orchestra, jazz band and concert band music.  Not often, but I have seen it more than a few times.

It may be peculiar to North America - I don't know.  But the UK authority is probably discussing usage in the UK without necessarily paying attention to other parts of the world.

Certainly North American musical language differs from British in other respects: expressions such as quaver, crotchets, etc., are seldom used in western Canada in my experience, except by recent immigrants from the UK.  Our conductor in the Delta Concert Band is one such, and usually just gets blank stares from us when he uses those expressions - and most of us are VERY experienced musicians.

Re: the symbol for repeating measures

Reply #13 –
The single measure repeat (inclined single stroke with dots) and the two measure repeat (double inclined strokes with dots crossing the barline between the measures) is also common in Australia.
I've been a working musician and professional copyist for over 40 years and these symbols are taken for granted here (not at all confusing).

As for the theoretical approach to notation, let me quote another expert (Matthew Flinders - Navigator/Explorer) - not an expert on notation but an expert nevertheless.

"Constant employment upon practice has not allowed me to become much acquainted with theories".

Re: the symbol for repeating measures

Reply #14 –
...I suppose you'd rather prove the other guy wrong than have a meaningful and constructive dialogue.
This is not my goal.  There is no animosity in my tone.  Please do not read negativity into posts where none is intended.
And I'm sorry for my simplistic suggestions.
The word simplistic was first used by you yourself in Reply 9.  My usage of the word was not intended as insult.  I was merely keeping language consistent from one reply to the next.
In regard to a source quote, the only one I currently have available is
- The Essential Dictionary of Music Notation, Tom Gerou & Linda Lusk, © MCMXCVI by Alfred Publishing Co., Inc. (p244)
but I have seen the symbol in question in a dozen or so notation texts, and countless times in published music.

Re: the symbol for repeating measures

Reply #15 –
Peter Edwards makes an easily justifiable claim.

http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory24.htm

In the second section, called "Repeated Groups" it states clearly: "...repeated pattern of mixed notes - two oblique strokes within two dots." It also includes a diagram.

Re: the symbol for repeating measures

Reply #16 –
The Dolmetsch site is a wonderful resource.  With absolutely no disrespect intended, I don't see, in lesson 24, any reference to the two bar repeat symbol.  The site does show a regular repeat sign, which is only good for one repetition.

In example 2 on this page http://users.aol.com/adrums/adrums42.htm is a 2 bar repeat sign that is in very common usage.  I believe it is usually shown with 2 slashes, but I am likely mistaken.

It's funny, but I think notation varies from region to region.  The Dolmetsch site this symbol with two slashes, within a bar, to denote a repeat of several notes in the bar.  I've never seen it used that way, and I've been honking for nigh on to 40 years.

Re: the symbol for repeating measures

Reply #17 –
I have to agree with David Palmquist.
...it is usually shown with 2 slashes...
I've also never seen it used the way this symbol appears on the Dolmetsch site, and I've been honking for nigh on to 70 years.

Re: the symbol for repeating measures

Reply #18 –
Might this be a regional difference..? Here in Finland I have learnt these things just the way they are on the Dolmetsch site; that the double-slash-with-dots is an "irregular repeater" and the single-slash one is a measure repeater (optionally with a number above it to indicate how many bars to repeat).

All in all, the handling of some things seems to be regionally specific; for example the effect of repeat signs when they are encountered after a D.C. or D.S. In NWC, a D.C. or a D.S. is always senza repetizione, and when I used NWC for the first time, I thought this was a bug!