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reading bass clef

I have only been taught how to read in treble clef. There is a song that I'm trying to learn on the piano (my first attempt at it) and the main part is in treble clef, but the background stuff is in bass clef. So I was wondering, how is bass clef different from treble clef and if someone can explain it, how do you read it?

Thanks,
Sarah

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #1 –
The bass clef is just a continuation of the treble clef, with one leger line inbetween. Another way of putting this: the note on the first leger line below the treble staff is "middle C". The note on the first leger line above the bass staff is the same note, middle C.

This trick might also help; if you're comfortable with treble clef and can recognize notes at a glance, you can look at a note in bass clef and mentally shift it up two note positions. For instance, the note on the lowest line of the staff would be an "E" in treble clef; shift it up two note positions, and you have "G" in bass clef (except of course two octaves lower).

Hope this helps

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #2 –
In other words......
bass clef is two whole steps lower than trebel clef.
basically.
^_^

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #3 –
I'd say it's two "steps" higher. (Don't mind the octave)
If you would read a D (4th line on treble clef) on treble clef, then it D+2=F on the bass clef.

Many occasional bass-clef readers (such as tenors) read it that way:
read it as "treble clef plus 2".
HTH!

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #4 –
I've always seen tenor notated on bass clef-- but that's only on SATB stuff I guess.

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #5 –
Yes, tenor as a solo voice is almost universally written in treble clef (understood to be an octave lower than written, so as not to compete with the sopranos). ;-)

It's only in SATB or operatic trios, quartets, etc. that tenor shares the bass clef with the baritones/basses.

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #6 –
A simple way to "read" the notes is to remember two short phrases.  Looking at the four spaces from bottom to top.
(A)ll (C)ows (E)at (G)rass.  The five lines from bottom to top are. (G)ood (B)oys (D)o (F)ine (A)lways.

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #7 –
(G)ood (B)oys (D)o (F)ine (A)lways.

What about the girls?  Why are we always omitted?

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #8 –
My apologies to all who took offense.  To paraphrase a line that Abraham Lincoln once said.  You can please only some people all the time.  I suppose I could have said (A)ll (C)ows (E)at (G)irls but then I would have gotten mail from cows who have never eaten a girl, claiming defamation of character.  I'm sure that there are other phrases to teach the names of notes of the lines and spaces but these were the ones that were taught to me.

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #10 –
(G)irls (B)arely (D)o (F)ine (A)nyway??

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #11 –
That's just rude.

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #12 –
Girls B D Finest, A (eh) ?

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #13 –
"Girls Before Did Fine Already" then?  Sorry if you took it that way.  I didn't want to make it an offence.
Will "All Charms, Especially Girls" repair this?

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #14 –
I am somewhat mollified.  Perhaps a sentence without any gender indications whatsoever would be in order.

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #15 –
Just a sentence? Doesn't have to fit with the bass clef notes or anything? lol... I won't even try... Girls Are Too Easily Offended.

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #16 –
My personal preference is for phrases that have a high degree of surrealism so perhaps

(G)reedy (B)adgers (D)ig (F)or (A)rtichokes

Surely that can only offend badgers!

There is no substitute, however, for just playing or singing from whatever clef the music happens to be written in. I quite enjoy (!) playing concert pitch music written on bass clef using my Bb clarinet and the more I play the fewer mistakes I make!

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #17 –
a) What about artichokes that might object to you inciting badger attack? :P

b) Playing bass clef on Bb Clarinet:

A couple of months ago I happend to be sat next to a vacant 2nd basson desk while the clarinet part was tacet.  After staring idly at the 2nd basson part for a while I realised that to play the bass clef part on the Bb clarinet all I needed to do was read it as treble clef, adjust the key signature and keep the speaker key shut and so I joined in.  The 1st bassoonist was quite impressed - not only did I *appear* to be transposing at sight, I was also switching clef.  Problems arise of course when the part goes below middle line D or above two ledger line E.

Stephen

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #18 –
Unless they are Jerusalem artichokes this is REALLY surreal, as globe artichokes are the flower bud a large thistle.  Then, perhaps the badgers are digging from the bottom and pulling them down into their burrows.

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #19 –
We badgers will now get the blame for all manner of vegetable depradations as well as TB. Perhaps this thread should leave the humble (IMHO) badger in peace.

http://www.badgerland.co.uk/

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #20 –
Gut Busters Don't Fix Abs!

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #21 –
Or one in honour of The Who:

"Guitar Busters Don't Fret Anymore."

;-)

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #22 –
Does anyone know where there is some bass clef software for sale or to download that doesn't have a bunch of tab.  A cross between the "Rythem Tutor" (which uses only one pitch at a time) the "Band in box" (I'm not far enough along to practice on real book melodies).

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #23 –
I simply remember that notes on lines make G9 chord (G-B-D-F-A) and notes in spaces are Am7 chord (A-C-E-G).

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #24 –
I need to learn the bass clef because I'm learning cello. Any ideas?

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #25 –
You already know the treble clef, yes? Just imagine that (due to the weight of the bass) everything sank downwards one line.

Treble staff lines are EGBDF. The E sinks off the bottom of the bass clef, leaving GBDF, capped by A.

In fact, the bass clef is so heavy, it sinks below C level. That is, middle C is the ledger line just above the bass staff.

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #26 –
For boytoy, learning the cello:

The suggestions in this topic are great for working out notes in bass clef from treble, but as soon as you can, start thinking about the notes directly in bass clef - you will slow yourself down if you are continually "transposing" whilst you're playing, and there are tons of other things to think about.

Here is the method of learning a new clef that worked for me.  It works just as well for any clef.  Memorise the position of a single note.  For bass clef, I'd suggest C below Middle C.  Do NOT think of this as "treble clef A, but up a couple of letters".  Learn it as C, glance at it and see C, know it as C.  Learn other notes in relation to C.  Neighbouring notes are fairly easy, and you'll soon pick up octaves, and probably fifths and fourths above and below.  Play in the new clef as much as possible.  Write in it.  Allow yourself to make mistakes.  More and more notes will become familiar and you will be able to stop having to relate back to C.

In the not too distant future, you're also going to get tenor clef.  When you do, memorise where middle C is, and go from there.  Pay more attention to the higher notes, especially above the stage - that's where tenor clef is most used.  And don't forget, every trombonist and bassoonist (such as me) have managed it, so if we wind players can do it (with lots of practice), it should be a breeze for cellists.

When you get to it, the spaces in tenor clef are "East Germany borders Denmark", and yes I know, East Germany doesn't exist any more, and yes I know, East Germany DIDN'T border Denmark.

For Stephen Randall, playing bassoon parts on Bb clarinet.  This could only have worked if the bassoon part was in tenor clef at the time.  I play in pit orchestras, and regularly play low clarinet parts on bassoon by reading in tenor clef (and bari sax parts by reading in bass clef).  The other trick you can do on Bb instruments to astound and amaze your friends, is to take a viola part (in alto clef), add two sharps and read it in bass clef.  The most obscure trick of this sort is that viola players can read a treble clef Db piccolo part in alto clef - but the only arrangements with Db parts seem to be ancient English military band settings, and you don't get too many violas in those bands.  (See, you learn something useful every day when you read NoteWorthy Composer Forum!)

As a side issue, for all composers, arrangers, orchestrators and copyists out there:  Please, please, please, on behalf of all tenor clef readers out there, please switch back to bass clef if you are writing tenor clef mainly within the staff.  Tenor clef is excellent when the notes would mostly all be above the staff in bass clef, but we'd much rather play a few bass clef notes with lots of leger lines, than try to remember what the tenor clef notes are low in the staff - and especially leger lines below.

And, for bassoons (if not cellos or trombones):  we really, really hate reading treble clef.  Sure, we all learned recorder in primary school, but bassoon IS a tenor/baritone instrument (and bass when really necessary).  Guess it's a style thing.  The book for Chess has all three clefs, for no apparently good reason.

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #27 –
"As a side issue, for all composers, arrangers, orchestrators and copyists out there: Please, please, please, on behalf of all tenor clef readers out there, please switch back to bass clef if you are writing tenor clef mainly within the staff."

Also for violas... Never, ever switch to treble clef if you stay below an "e" (just above the staff).  There's no point, and it aggrivates (sp) the players to have to switch back and forth frequently.  Also, if there's just a few notes up there, leave it in alto clef... Any violist worth his snuff can read up to a "g" above the staff, and we'd rather do that than switch to treble for two notes.

Oh, and... Don't write c-flats below the staff!  Or 'b's down there... Our bottom is the 'c', and it confuses and annoys us to have to turn our pegs for one note!  ;-)

Geoff

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #28 –
The above couple of responses are very worthwhile.

I sing bass (SATB). I "read" the bass clef by focusing on D (or Db), at the center staff line, since it is a note I can naturally sing well. I also focus on middle C, at the ledger line above the staff.

Regarding switching clefs: Bass singers are used to reading either treble or bass clef. But we are not used to reading the treble clef as the lower of two staves.

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #29 –
A note to all composers and arrangers out there: I'd rather see a clef change every every four notes than read leger lines.

As me old mum used to say, wouldn't life be boring if we were all the same.

And for all those people learning clefs on a stringed instrument: locate the open strings as references and you'll be fine. I found the score of a sonata I learned many years ago and there was a little sketch in my handwriting with the top four open strings of the bass gamba in alto clef - it must have been the first piece I learned that used it. Now, Lord bless me, I use treble, alto, bass, octave treble, tenor, and even sometimes the baritone and soprano clefs and hardly ever complain or get dizzy.

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #30 –
To reply to Ewan, the bassoon was written in Bass Clef, which is why my faking works.

Take for example the G below middle C.  In the bass clef it is written in the 4th space.  Reading this as treble clef it looks like an E.  On the clarinet you play this E with speaker key open, left thumb closed, left fingers 1,2,3 closed, right fingers 1,2 closed.  Now, if you leave the speaker key closed you are playing a written A below middle C (i.e a twelfth lower) And, lo and behold, as the clarinet is transposing in Bb it comes out two semitones lower as the G below middle C.

Stephen

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #31 –
As a side issue, for all composers, arrangers, orchestrators and copyists out there: Please, please, please, on behalf of all tenor clef readers out there, please switch back to bass clef if you are writing tenor clef mainly within the staff.
I agree.  I just played the Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody Nr. 2, and there were notes two leger lines below the tenor staff.  Thanks, NoteWorthy, for making it possible for me to create a part that switches to bass clef at the proper time.

Wow, the spell checker doesn't like "copyists" or "orchestrators."

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #32 –
Stephen, that's simply amazing!  (Or impressive, as seems to be the trend for bassoonists.)  I played clarinet for a short time a long while ago, so was able to follow your explanation.

So if the written music doesn't go below D in the middle of the bass clef, you can do the "forget the speaker key" trick, or if it goes into tenor clef, you just read in treble clef but down an octave.

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #33 –
What's the problem? Been reading F clef since I was 12, - 41 years never had a problem :) Now, how do you live with Tenor Clef?  I use FACE I just figure out where it lays on the staff.  Just start reading and playing beginer music and B4 you know it you will know what ever clef you want.

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #34 –
I have another way to remember GBDFA!!! (G)irls (B)uy (D)iamonds (F)or (A)lways.

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #35 –
I was just wondering....I am swithing from Baritone to Tuba and I have no earthly idea about the bass clef. I do know that it is (A)LL (C)ARS (E)AT (G)AS instead of F A C E. I guess i was wondering if anyone would like to tell me anything else that I need to know about bass clef?or Tuba? It would be much appriciated. ( I want my band teacher and friends to be impressed! :) )

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #36 –
Lynn, congratulations on switching to a real instrument (he ducks quickly)!  For learning how to make bass clef familiar, just scroll back to https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=2477.msg20684#msg20684.

Tuba doesn't (usually) transpose an octave like double bass, so get lots of practice with leger lines below the staff.  You won't have to worry about tenor clef - if you ever get it on tuba, you can justifiably claim "foul".

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #37 –
Thank you Ewan!

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #38 –
One for the Dutch speakers among us...
Goeie bak die forum antwoorden. (Good joke those forum answers.) Alle Chinchilla's eten groente (All chinchillas eat veggies)
No badger jokes from me.

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #39 –
I need much help switching from bass clef to treble.I play cello and am getting to a point where I need to learn it.Any advice is greatly appreciated

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #40 –
If you get a couple of piano scores and copy the bass clef part into NWC, thinking of the note names while you do it, you'll have the bass clef memorized quickly.

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #41 –
Great Brushes Deliver Fine Art

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #43 –
why dont you just memorize "G B D F A" ?

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #44 –
Where's the fun in that?
And then, there's the long term effect of helpful sentences. I will remember 'Geef die aap een bus fijne cacao' and 'Friese boeren eten alle dagen gort' as long as I live, and will use and teach it equally long.

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #45 –
How come there is no C in the flat scheme?

Re: reading bass clef

Reply #47 –
Lonely T., a possible answer:  Cb (and Gb) don't appear in the flat scheme, because you hardly ever use them when you're at the stage when you still need mnemonics to remember the flats.

By the time you're playing and writing in obscure keys that use Db dominant 7th chords, or Gb dominant 7th chords, you're expected to know the order of flats!