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Topic: Neccecary Updates to fix big problems in NoteWorthy (Read 6897 times) previous topic - next topic

Neccecary Updates to fix big problems in NoteWorthy

Hi, I have registered Noteworthy. I have many other programs, I'm most comfortable with this one but I found it still has some huge problems with the midi support compared to other programs. I found some things you guys can fix for the next release

- When loading a midi it does not detect that there has been volume or transposition changes to tracks.

- There is no support for bends

Thanks for reading, please take note of this request.

~RC

Re: Neccecary Updates to fix big problems in NoteWorthy

Reply #1 –
Those are not bugs, it's just that NWC doesn't currently support the features you mentioned. Keep in mind that NWC is a small (byte size) easy-to-use program that is primarily intended to do certain things very well, other things moderately well. There are dedicated sound file manipulation programs that do those other things. Whether or not NWC will choose to add the features you want in a future release is up to them (I don't work for NWC). But it's not as if there's a problem with the program.

Re: Neccecary Updates to fix big problems in NoteWorthy

Reply #2 –
The issues here are specific to MIDI file import. If you create your songs in NWC directly, neither of these are issues.

> - There is no support for bends

This is not true. NWC supports bends, but will not import them when opening/importing from a MIDI file.

Re: Neccecary Updates to fix big problems in NoteWorthy

Reply #3 –
Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember an 'ancient' version (1.3 or older) of NWC "importing" pitch-bends though not displaying them on the staves. Ie, I was able to hear the alrenate tuning (of a Persian midi file, in that case) but actually there was nothing on the page, no controllers.

I remember because it was the first time that I leaned MIDI was capable of non-12et.

FWIW

Re: Neccecary Updates to fix big problems in NoteWorthy

Reply #4 –
Quote:
"Those are not bugs, it's just that NWC doesn't currently support the features you mentioned. Keep in mind that NWC is a small (byte size) easy-to-use program that is primarily intended to do certain things very well, other things moderately well. There are dedicated sound file manipulation programs that do those other things. Whether or not NWC will choose to add the features you want in a future release is up to them (I don't work for NWC). But it's not as if there's a problem with the program."
------------

Hey um.. Have you ever tried any other MIDI program at all? it does certain things well, and completely misses out on EXTREMELY important capabilities in music making. Besides 1 of them is a bug, when you load a song, it should tell you the volume and transposition of a track so you don't have to guess and just use it as an adjustment option instead of a setting which it was intended to be. Also, I have used maybe 12 midi composing programs. Many of which are made by very small companies, and they all have supported bends in songs. That feature is just extremely essential when creating music. And the volume and transposition thing is like blindly setting options when you load something.

Re: Neccecary Updates to fix big problems in NoteWorthy

Reply #5 –
and Also, when trying to edit a MIDI file that somebody else made, the volume and transposition setting to default and the non-present support of bends really messes things up

Re: Neccecary Updates to fix big problems in NoteWorthy

Reply #6 –
Part of the trick of being a reasonably happy computer user is to choose the appropriate tool for the job at hand. If the job at hand is editing midi files, then what you need is a program commonly termed a "sequencer," such as Cubase, Cakewalk, etc.

If the job at hand is producing type-set musical scores, there are programs available that do just that.

NWC is a different entity again, combining features of both. Its greatest strength is that scores and midi can be created with a minimum of effort, compared to sequencing the midi in one program and typesetting it in another. It does not contain piano-roll style midi editors, midi event editors, and similar functionality of a strictly midi-mechanic nature. Nor does it sport all the features of a professional typesetting program. Rather, it combines aspects of both, and what it does do, it does well.

Your position is rather like being annoyed that your word-processor, which can embed graphics objects, is not capable of editing those objects.

In my work, I use NWC for probably 90% of the creative process. The remaining 10% are readily taken care of by other programs, including but not limited to sequencers (usually Cubase), midi disassemblers, recording hardware/software, and other stuff.

When I want to drive nails, I use a hammer. When I want to drive screws, I use a screwdriver. That way I don't frustrate myself.

Fred

Re: Neccecary Updates to fix big problems in NoteWorthy

Reply #7 –
Fred, once again your vast knowledge has clarified the issue.

Let me make an analogy: Have you ever tried to publish a tabloid newsletter, with repositionable flowing text and graphics, using MS Word? It can be done!

Have you ever tried to write a professional thesis, with text and footnotes, using Pagemaker? It can be done!

But each of those programs is optimized for some tasks. That's why someone who needs to regularly do both tasks is likely to have both programs, or equivalents.

As Fred noted, if your primary purpose is the direct manipulation of MIDI, especially if you wish to coordinate tracks with other events (such as video), then there are programs specifically for that purpose. To my knowledge, none of them are very good for sheet music, even though they may have the capability.

MIDI exported from NWC can have key signatures, pitch bends, volume changes, and so forth. But when MIDI is imported into a program (not just NWC, others as well) some information may not be present, or may be interpreted somewhat differently than at time of creation. This is not a "bug" in the program; it is that the necessary information was not retained in the MIDI file in a way that the importing program can interpret it.

There do exist programs that can do many different things. Some NWC users have those programs, too (I do). But we still prefer NWC for its intended purposes.

Re: Neccecary Updates to fix big problems in NoteWorthy

Reply #8 –
But you guys are trying to make it seem like its impossible, besides the first thing I mentioned should be able to be fixed easily since its supposed to be in there anyway

Re: Neccecary Updates to fix big problems in NoteWorthy

Reply #9 –
I don't think anyone has said "it's impossible." Anything is possible but not everything is necessary or even desirable. Furthermore, any software developer has to prioritize needs and wants when designing new functionality.

In this case, I agree that expanded midi handling capability might be desirable, but as a great many excellent NWC sequences on the web attest, it is not necessary. (btw, please note the correct spelling of "necessary".)

The appropriate action if you want added functionality is to visit the "wish list", requesting such functionality in a future release. Making demands and insinuating that the program has major faults needing immediate correction is not the greatest way to make friends and influence people -- especially the people to whom you're directing the demand.

I'd suggest learning to use the program as it stands. There are a great many resources available to help you do so. You might have a look at what others have done with this program you consider to have "big problems." A good place to start is the Scriptorium.

Cheers,
Fred

Re: Neccecary Updates to fix big problems in NoteWorthy

Reply #10 –
Re: Ertugrul's comment about importing bends. Pitch bends in midi files will be heard on playback in NWC player. I never noticed them being imported into NWC. Unless it worked out a linear interpolation of values, it would need to use multiple discreet MPCs, which would dangerously clutter up a score.

w.r.t. the initial comments:
- When loading a midi it does not detect that there has been volume or transposition changes to tracks.
By volume, do you mean velocity? I do wish that could be improved, but since importing MIDs to NWC is usually for creating notation rather than performance, I've never considered it that important. I guess you could describe the import thingy as useful but incomplete.

- There is no support for bends
Only on import. Pitch bends can be added by using MPCs (multi-point controllers). They are extremely powerful little doohickies.

A

Re: Neccecary Updates to fix big problems in NoteWorthy

Reply #11 –
The correct, official and effective way for requesting new capabilities or improvements on present ones is to wish for them.

You do this using the wishlist

Hth,
Ertugrul

Re: Neccecary Updates to fix big problems in NoteWorthy

Reply #12 –
Well maybe.

  • Correct - Well it's not incorrect
  • Official - Certainly
  • Effective - A matter of opinion. I bet the list of wishes not granted is a darn sight longer than the official 'wishes granted' list.
Not that I'm complaining too much, but the wish list is rather a black hole from you can extract nothing. I see nothing wrong with lively discussion of tweaks and enhancements in the forum and newsgroup and I refuse to believe that NW takes no notice of such discussions.

What would be effective is a properly constructed open wish list where we could vote/comment on suggestions, and perhaps NW could also contribute. That would not commit NW to any action of course - after all it is entirely up to Eric and Beth to decide what actually goes into the program.

Having said that, I have a personal list of flaws (i.e. not enhancements but indisputable errors (none of them too serious, but...) all on the wishlist) where I'd dearly love to know when they are going to be correctd.

Peter

Re: Neccecary Updates to fix big problems in NoteWorthy

Reply #13 –
To clarify:

I'm pro-discusion on this very forum and on the ng.

However, the wishlist being the official desk for accepting requests, it would make it more effective both wishing there and discussing elsewhere.

Regards,
Ertugrul

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Re: Neccecary Updates to fix big problems in NoteWorthy

Reply #14 –
The request for some feedback to wishlist entries has merit.

I occasionally "wish", but have never had any feedback as to whether my suggestion has been accepted, rejected, or even read. A simple acknowledgement would encourage me to keep wishing (maybe this is not such an attractive outcome for Noteworthy...).

What I'd like to told in the reply would be whether my wish was (eg):
• rejected (out-of-scope for the program)
• rejected (not possible for the forseeable future)
• rejected (insufficient demand)
• low-priority (little perceived demand)
• under consideration for next major release
• under consideration for next minor upgrade
• in development for next release
• already supported (user should RTFM)
...etc.

Re: Neccecary Updates to fix big problems in NoteWorthy

Reply #15 –
Fred wrote Anything is possible but not everything is necessary or even desirable. This sounds to me (after translation) as St Augustin wordings to me, but I may be wrong. Anyway: I'm not sure of what RC! calls transposition changes to track.
Could you please give us more explanations, or better, a link to a midi file that has such a thing? AFAIK, midi files do not contain "transposition", but I'm not a wizard in midi file format. I had noticed until now that the midi events where absolute notes, not transposed ones, so I can't imagine how you could say that a Bb (in midi event) is a C, simply because the instrument is a clarinet...
About pitch bends, Andrew answered right, and even since 1.1 version no pitch bend was imported. They are heard in NWPlayer because NWPlayer really uses the midi file when displaying an on-the-fly-converted midi file.

For the usage of pitch bend in NWC, just try it (MPC using pitch bend), and you'll see it can do it well, though limited to a 4 semitones amplitude. For more, there are tricks that can be used (for trombone or theremins for instance) to make bendings on much more. I think the best example I heard was "Impending doom", of Fred.

Hoping this helps!

Re: Neccecary Updates to fix big problems in NoteWorthy

Reply #16 –
> I think the best example I heard was "Impending doom", of Fred.

So do I. I really loved this.

Re: Neccecary Updates to fix big problems in NoteWorthy

Reply #17 –
Note that Fred also mastered an nwc file to indicate how extended glissandi are accomplished, which is on the Scriptorium.

Hth,
Ertugrul

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