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Topic: Transposing Guitar Chords (Read 5307 times) previous topic - next topic

Transposing Guitar Chords

I'm probably being very stupid and asking for something that's not possible but.....
I write a lot of music in this excellent package, and assign guitar chords to it using the insert text facility.
However, when I transpose that music to another key, naturally the chords don't change.

Is there any way of doing this or is this a wish list item?

Thanks

C Young

Re: Transposing Guitar Chords

Reply #1 –
well, as long as they are entered as text, it's a pure wish :)
Otherwise, either you specify to use a "capodastre" on the guitar, ot you compute yuorself the new name of the chord (which is not so difficult after all. With some training it will soon be as natural as counting 1, 2, 3)

Re: Transposing Guitar Chords

Reply #2 –
Transposing is really easy once you get familiar with the notes and all, but there are some transposing charts that you could probably pick up at a music store that make it a no brainer.
Ev

Re: Transposing Guitar Chords

Reply #3 –
Thanks guys. I'm quite comfortable with transposing between keys etc and writing in the new chords (or indeed using a capo on the gutar).

I was think more along the lines of an enhancement to the product I guess. The ability to define a 'chord' which is entered on a stave at a place and associated with the key signature of the stave. So that, should you choose to transpose the stave, the chords will transpose too.

But as you say, I guess this is just a wish for now..... :)

Thanks again

CY

Re: Transposing Guitar Chords

Reply #4 –
Sometimes re-defining the problem can lead to better solutions.  Let’s see --- while chord symbols can be handled using Insert/Text, the main drawback is that each symbol must be entered and positioned separately.  In addition, there is no capacity for transposing these text entries.  Furthermore, a simple task like playing a song twice, in two different keys, involves editing all the previous chord symbols to reflect the change in key.  (Trying to think like a programmer, I would assume that part of the programming difficulty of any transposing algorithm would be to figure out which text entries were chords and which were other musical instructions that were meant to remain intact.)  The good news is that the visual effect is splendid, i.e., the extra work is (usually) worth the effort.

However, these are computers that we are using, and we always wonder “Why are we doing this by hand when the computer could be doing the work, or at least helping?”  N’est pas?  So ---

I started playing around with using the Lyrics editor to enter chords instead of lyrics.  (Later, a search showed this was suggested back in 1998 by Jon Featherstone, with a reply by marsu.)  The results were so pleasing that it would seem to me (IMHO) that a little tinkering with the Lyrics editor on the part of NWC would provide a substantial upgrade of the process of entering chord symbols.  Here’s what I came up with -- maybe others can add improvements/suggestions.  The process is much “cleaner” than it might have been in 1998, due to the addition of layered staffs and hidden/muted notes.

First the tech stuff on the line that is to show the chords:  1 Lyric line; Standard Rules; Alignment Top; Offset 0; Staff Lyric Font pre-set/modified to 12 point/Times New Roman/bold.  Each chord symbol needs a note to be attached to (as a “lyric”).  Ultimately all such notes are to be hidden as well as muted.  The text for the chords is real easy, the standard letters and numbers, along with #,b,M,m,d,+,-, and any others you might prefer.  Slashes can be used to show  “C / / /” for 4 quarter notes, etc.; the slashes must be separated by spaces to line up properly.  [Cf. a lyric like “C can you see”.  :>)]  To skip over a note, use the underscore (also separated by spaces); thus “C _ / _” as a lyric would read “C  /  ” on the chord line, with the slash over the third beat of the measure.  The preceding is really unnecessary if two half notes were entered rather than 4 quarter notes.  Indeed, most of the entries would be whole notes or whole rests.  A standard blues sequence might show chord changes on the 1st, 4th, 5th, 7th, 9th and 11th bars (C, C7, F7, C, G7, C, etc.); the staff would need 6 whole notes in those measures,  and 6 whole rests in the others; the “lyric” would read as above without the commas:  C  C7  F7  C  G7  C.  Pretty simple, no? -- The whole thing takes less than a minute to set up!  “Transposing” would mean editing the “lyric” to reflect the new key, such as  D  D7  G7  D  A7  D.  The important thing to remember is that the actual notes being played (on the other staffs) can be quite complex rhythmically; this notational staff is just to position the chord symbols.

The previous drawback of using chords as well as lyrics is overcome by placing the chord symbols on the “chord symbol staff” and layering it with the staff below, which can have the lyrics in the customary “Bottom” alignment.  This still is not perfect, since there is only one “Lyrics font”; the lyrics, unfortunately, appear in the same size as the chord symbols, which is much too large for my taste.

All of this suggests some possibilities for the NWC brain trust.  1)  Have a separate “Chord editor” along the same lines as the “Lyric editor” to be accessed in a similar manner using the “Edit” dropdown menu; include a default “Chord font” under “Page Setup”.  2) Or --- add a couple of options to the existing “Lyric editor”, such as “Chords -- yes or no”; still need the chord font.  3) Or --- change maybe the last lyric line tab (“Lyric 8”) to “Chord symbols” using the chord font as a default; this also needs a way to select such a tab, so maybe “Chords -- yes or no” is still needed, or some option under “Line Count”.

Finally, since this thread started with transposing chord names, it would be a fairly straightforward process (for man or computer)  to alter the string of chords in the chord editor, as opposed to processing all the entries under Insert/Text .  And it would save the customers a ton of work.  :>)

Re: Transposing Guitar Chords

Reply #5 –
Good idea. I tried a similar approach with tonic sol-fa (it worked but I got bored with it) and also with chanted syllables when the main staff just has a whole note. There is a problem about the font however. I don't know of a (semi-standard) font that has letters and sharps and flats, and really that would be a requirement.

There's no need to put muted notes on the layered stave since you can attach lyrics to rests Chacun a son gout I suppose.

Peter

Re: Transposing Guitar Chords

Reply #6 –
I didn't realize that lyrics could be attached to rests.  Thanks.

I don't know if it would solve the font dilemna in NWC, but I purchased a font called Metronome back in 1995 that has answered all my other needs since then, especially for text-oriented material.  It was created by a music engraver on the east coast for in-house purposes, and he eventually went public with it.  My 20 bucks in 1995 got Metronome v. 3.5 and MetTimes v. 2.5, and a quick search just revealed that the same fonts (same versions) are still available for 24.95 + 3.00 shipping.  They would appear to be pretty well finalized/durable.  The link at

http://www.dvmpublications.com/metronome_information.htm

shows some of the details.  There used to be a public domain version of a subset of the full font; it's probably still out there somewhere.

I ran a quick test, and they look rather nice in NWC (screen and print) using Insert/Text and one of the user-defined fonts.  Of course, the price tag is more than half the cost of the entire NWC package!