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Topic: 5 beats in a 4 beat measure? (Read 6029 times) previous topic - next topic

5 beats in a 4 beat measure?

I have been corresponding with a forum user and we are unable to agree that a five beat count can be in a four beat measure that has a split stem chord. This is possible because of the way NWC counts beats when there are split stem chords in a measure.

For the purpose of an example notate the following on a single treble clef staff in 4/4 time.

Note 1. Enter an upstem 1/2 note on B.

Note 2. Attached a downstem middle C to note 1 as a chord member to make a split chord.

Note 3. An upstem 1/4 note B with tie.

Note 4. An upstem 1/4 note B (will tie to previous 1/4 note B

Note 5. A downstem 1/2 note Middle C attached as a chord member to Note 4 to form a split chord.

Note 6. An upstem 1/4 note B.

Your measure should begin with a split chord containing an upstem 1/2 note B and a downstem 1/4 note middle C. To the right of the split chord should be a single upstem 1/4 note B with tie. To the right of that note should be a split chord containing a 1/4 note B tied back to the preceding B and a downstem 1/2 note middle C attached to form a split chord. as a split stem chord. To the right of that split stem chord should be an upstem 1/4 note B.

Pardon me if I overdid my description of the measure.

Now, if you saw that measure on a printed sheet and a 1/2 note is 2 beats and a 1/4 note is 1 beat, then how many beats are in the measure?

Looking for your answers in the forum.

Re: 5 beats in a 4 beat measure?

Reply #1 –
This behaviour is a function of how NWC handles split chords. NWC does not truly support two voices in a single staff. However, it will allow you to construct a split stem chord, with differing durations in the upward stem notes verses downward stem notes. This technique allows a notation that will appear to support two voices per staff. However, NWC will only actually use the lesser duration in a split stem chord. So, an upward stem quarter note combined with a downward stem half note will be treated exactly the same as a quarter note by itself (in the alignment, formatting, and playback positioning of notes that follow it).

I hope this helps. ---- Eric (support@noteworthysoftware.com)

Re: 5 beats in a 4 beat measure?

Reply #2 –
See 'Can Certain Note Patterns be Entered?' earlier in the Forum where we've already agreed that this phenomenon exists!

Re: 5 beats in a 4 beat measure?

Reply #3 –
Being the disagreeable (? well, I hope not, lets say the unconvinced) user I would like to throw in my two cents (to coin a phrase).

I think the problem here is what we mean by a measure. To me, a measure is not the space between two vertical bars, after all you could put them between every pair of notes, but a sequence of notes comprising the number of beats defined by the time signature. So, by definition a measure in 4/4 time can not contain more (or less) than four beats. What we are discussing here is simply a non-standard representation.

Two further tests are called for.

First, (after changing the B to something more euphonious) add a bass staff, set it to channel 10 and fill it with 1/4 notes, to establish a beat. Then run the bar-line audit on the result. You will find that NWC doesn't think the fifth beat (the last 1/4 note) belongs in the measure, it will move it to the following measure. The first measure still looks odd, with the trailing 1/2 note (as discussed in a previous thread), certianly not "normal" notation. Now, play the result. If you listen closely you will hear the 1/2 note in question sound during the last beat of the first measure and the first beat of the following (added by audit) measure. Thus, while it LOOKS as if there are five beats, there are really only four.

Second, replace the offending 1/2 note by a pair of tied 1/4 notes. The music hasn't changed, but now all is well in the notation department. Do this to the pre-audited staff and the audit will leave you with a absolutely correct result.

I won't get into the pros and cons of this peculiarity of NWC (for selfish reasons I hope it presists due to the inability to tie across a key signature change--not time as I erroniously stated in an earlier posting), but one should consider what is happening when the "play" button is clicked. As I understand it (and I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong, please do) a MIDI command tells the machinery to start producing a defined sound at a given time, for a given duration. MIDI knows nothing of measures or bar lines. Thus, NWC launchs the 1/2 note at the end of its measure and leaves it to the mercy of the MIDI sequencer. It is interesting that if you export this example to MIDI and then import it certian information is lost, in particular the second of the tied 1/4 notes is missing, as it the second "half" of the final (bar-spanning) 1/2 note. I suspect this is an error.

So, certianly by my abstract definition of a measure, one can never have five beats in a four beat measure, and by the evidence of my ear this is true, dispite the evidence of my eye. It may look that way, but it just ain't so.