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3 Minor (Key) Problems

Three related questions:

1. I have a piece in Gm, NWC insists on displaying Gb's when I want F#'s. Is there any way to globally change the Gb's to F#'s? It's a lot of work to change each occurance individually! Perhaps some combination of steps involving force accidentals, transpose 0 and audit accidentals?

2. A piece in F#m, NWC insists on displaying F naturals when I want E#'s. Is there a clever fix?

3. A piece in C#m, NWC insists on displaying C naturals when I want B#'s. Is there a clever fix?

Re: 3 Minor (Key) Problems

Reply #1 –
You forgot Dm with a Db leading note!

Re: 3 Minor (Key) Problems

Reply #2 –
I left out Dm deliberately because there is a fix:

1) Highlight the Dm key signature and keep it highlighted -- you'll change it twice.
2) force accidentals,
3) change key signature to G (major)
4) transpose 0 steps,
5) Force accidentals
6) change the key signature to Dm,
7) Audit accidentals

Of course other accidentals may be altered by this procedure, but the C#'s will come out OK.

I posted this message hoping to uncover a Dm-style fix for Gm, C#m, and F#m.

Here's a fix for Gm that, it seems to me, should work but doesn't:
1) change key signature to the user defined key signature Bb, Eb, F#.
2) Transpose 0, This should (but doesn't) turn Gb's to F#'s.
3) Force accidentals.
4) Change key signature to Gm.
5) Audit accidentals.

Variants of this fix *should* work in minor keys that don't involve double sharps. (They would work in minor keys with double sharps if user defined keys could include double sharps.)

Now that I think about it, if transpose 0 worked in this fashion, I might be able to globally change any accidental to its enharmonic equivalent using a similar procedure. Example: a Dm piece with a bunch of Ab's that I wish were displayed as G#s, including one particularly ugly passage that reads (using n for a natural, b for a flat) A bA nA bA nA. Proposed solution:

1) change key signature to the user defined key signature Bb, C#, G#.
2) Transpose 0. This should turn Ab's to G#'s.
3) Force accidentals.
4) Change key signature back to Dm.
5) Audit accidentals.

All Ab's are now G#'s.

Could I be on to something here?

Steve

Re: 3 Minor (Key) Problems

Reply #3 –
I hope so - but should these workarounds be necessary?

Re: 3 Minor (Key) Problems

Reply #4 –
Okay there's probably something I missed but I imported a piece written in Bb.

I add the key signature for Bb yet all the As are still all sharps. (#)

What I do?

Re: 3 Minor (Key) Problems

Reply #5 –
ok, I must give you some more info.

I imported the melody line only because I added chords above the line with the text feature.

The melody uses some accidentals.

What I'm asking is, how can I force a key change so it summarises the notes, ie. turns A# into Bb when I add key signature Bb?

Re: 3 Minor (Key) Problems

Reply #6 –
This is probably more steps than you need - but if I'm wrong someone will correct me.

1. TOOLS > FORCE ACCIDENTALS
2. TOOLS > TRANSPOSE STAFF Set transposition to 0 zero - OK
3. TOOLS > AUDIT ACCIDENTALS

You may not need step 3.

Re: 3 Minor (Key) Problems

Reply #7 –
Steve - here's something to add to your bag of tricks: use the custom key signature option. For example, in Gm, change to a custom key sig containing Bb, Eb and F#. Then do the usual transpose 0, force accidentals, change to a standard Gm key sig, and audit accidentals.

Re: 3 Minor (Key) Problems

Reply #8 –
Fred: try the sequence you describe with a Gm piece that contains a few Gb's. It won't transform the Gb's to the desired F#'s.

---------
Added thoughts regarding minor keys:

Here's a more complete analysis of NWC's minor scale difficulties. I'll use the letter n to denote naturals and ## to denote double sharps. The potential problems concern the 6th and 7th degrees of each scale.

Cm defaults to An and Bn -- OK
C#m defaults to A# (OK) and Cn (should be B#)
Dm defaults to Bn (OK) and Db (should be C#)
D#m defaults to Cn (should be B#) and Dn (should be C##)
Ebm defaults to Cn and Dn -- OK
Em defaults to C# and D# -- OK
Fm defaults to Dn and En -- OK
F#m defaults to D# (OK) and Fn (should be E#)
Gm defaults to En (OK) and Gb (should be F#)
G#m defaults to Fn (should be E#) and G (should be F##)
Abm defaults to Fn and Gn -- OK
Am defaults to F# and G# -- OK
A#m defaults to Gn (should be F##) and An (should be G##)
Bbm defaults to Gn and An -- OK
Bm defaults to G# and A# -- OK

(To review these problems yourself, enter a Cm melodic scale with an Cm key signature and successively transpose it up by half steps. When you get to D#m force accidentals, switch the key signature from D#m to Ebm, and transpose 0 steps. Same for G#m and A#m.) Thus, ignoring the accidental-heavy keys, one should avoid Gm, C#m, and F#m when using NWC. If you use these keys, be prepared to do a lot of fixing. All are common keys so this is a significant problem.

It appears that NWC defaults to C over B#, F over E#, and naturals over double sharps, no matter what the key signature. Since NWC also chooses flats to display accidentals in flat keys, we get the Dm and Gm problems. Interestingly, I checked each of the problem scales in Cakewalk Express (a budget sequencer with limited notation capabilities) and it displayed every scale perfectly, double sharps and all.

Re: 3 Minor (Key) Problems

Reply #9 –
Given NWC's minor-key shortcomings, what's the best fix? Let's explore the possibilites by means of an example. Suppose F natural occurs in a piece with an A major (3 sharp) key signature, do I want NWC to display F natural or E#? It of course depends upon context and we can't reasonably expect NWC to know that. In addition, some people are uncomfortable with E#'s, they prefer F naturals even when E#'s are technically correct. It seems to me that there are several possible solutions.

(1) Provide a search and replace (S&R) command that can, say, change all occurances of F5 to E#5 in a group of selected notes or chords. Follow that S&R command with an AuditAccidentals command and you'll clear out any unnecessary F#'s that remain -- as might occur if F# alternated with F natural several times. If the highlighted area contains chords in which a requested replacement is impossible, NWC could highlight the offending chord, report "Can't change the selected item" and stop. (Or perhaps issue a warning similar to those transpose staff periodically issues.)

(2) NWC could make a distinction between major keys and their relative minors. If the relative minor is specified, NWC defaults to the accidentals likely to occur in that minor key. Example continued: if F# minor is specified, NWC defaults to E#. If A major is specified NWC defaults to F natural. Perhaps NWC could display in non-printing text "F#m" or "A" below a 3 sharp key signature to indicate which key has been defined.

(3) Enhance NWC so a zero-semitone TransposeStaff command works with user-defined key signatures as it now works with standard key signatures. (I'm inclined to say that TransposeStaff should have worked this way in the first place.) Continuing the example: To get E#'s in our piece, (a) force accidentals, (b) define the key signature F#, C#, G#, E# (A major + E#), (c) transpose 0, which changes the F naturals to E#'s, (d) force accidentals, (e) restore the original A key signature, and (f) audit accidentals. All those F naturals are now E#'s. If this sounds involved, remember that it's much easier than separately changing a bunch of F naturals to E#'s, particularly if F naturals occur in chords. If you want F naturals in one part of a piece and and E#'s in another, then bound the change area with an A major key signature. F's beyond that key signature won't be touched.