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Topic: Help required from a music maestro (please !) (Read 230 times) previous topic - next topic

Help required from a music maestro (please !)

Please see the attached few measures of piano music.
 I assumed (yeah I know !) that the squares were harmonics ie perhaps two octaves higher than written. But then when you get a square with an 8va if this means 3 octaves, surely that's above the range of the piano?

An explanation would be really appreciated or even better, nwctxt coding.

TIA

Rich.


Rich.

Re: Help required from a music maestro (please !)

Reply #1 –
Re the meaning, I would suspect(!) that the notation says: Touch the strings at the half point to elicit the second (thus the small 2) natural harmonics, i.e. one octave above the strings' pitches. Exactly the notes shown are played, and thus the range of the piano is never exceeded - but the sound is higher. Depending on the tempo of that piece, touching the right strings at the right places at the right time might need a maniacially fast left hand ... hm. I'm not so sure about all this.

For the whole concept of notating harmonics for the piano, see Elaine Gould's "Behind Bars", p.339. However, she uses small circles instead of squares and requires much more extensive explanations in the score - the sounding notes in parentheses, as well as a text explanation. Maybe this is found somewhere else in your score.

For how I'd write that in NWC, see the attached .nwctxt file. It requires an installed Wingdings font (which should be standard in any Windows version).

H.M.

Re: Help required from a music maestro (please !)

Reply #2 –
I rise a white flag: I never saw those squares.   ???
And I'm very, very puzzled by the concept of piano harmonics. :o
At most, I heard of a way of playing piano by keeping some keys pressed without making them play and then play some lower keys whose armonics make the pressed keys resonate. A sort of selective sustain.  ;)

Re: Help required from a music maestro (please !)

Reply #3 –
I, too, have never seen those squares (or Gould's circles), and have never experienced the sound (I think). But, I have heard about harmonics on piano strings. So, I opened my small grand piano and tried something. Here's what came out:

https://youtu.be/2SzhV2oIwKc
- at least, I got two higher, and clearly different tones, from a single key! It's interesting that I immediately got the fifth and octave harmonics, without much measuring and mathematical hocuspocus. It seems that only such clear harmonics survive. But don't ask me how to get such sounds from the strings that are mostly below the dampers and other parts of the piano action.

H.M.

Re: Help required from a music maestro (please !)

Reply #4 –
Hmm, (that's pondering, not HMM as in our friend Harald), curious. - There is no further explaination in the score . It does happen again nearly at the end the section is repeated but without the (2) referred to by HMM.
Tempo is marked as Tempo Di Polka. I can't imagine that there is enough time to touch the strings. When I saw this played on a piano competion (in the UK) , it is fast and furious and is by a Mexican composer.

I'm not worried about showing the squares in the score it really is what they represent and how to achieve it in NoteWorthy,

I might just ignore them and just use the octave markings when appropriate. But
I will dig out "Behing Bars" and have a look at that.

R,
Rich.

Re: Help required from a music maestro (please !)

Reply #5 –
Found it !  Google AI has solved it for me.

A square symbol placed directly on top of a note in standard music notation is called a square fermata (or box fermata). Meaning: It indicates a longer, more suspended pause than a standard rounded fermata.

How to play it: Hold the note (or rest) longer than its written value, typically giving it an extra-flexible, dramatic breathing space that completely suspends the strict tempo of the piece.

In Mexican music: While not unique solely to Mexico, it frequently appears in expressive traditional styles—such as romantic boleros, dramatic canciones rancheras, or nostalgic valses mexicanos—where performers use a dramatic pause or stretched cadence (rubato) for emotional emphasis before moving to the next phrase.

The square fermata means you must bring the driving, fast-paced polka rhythm to a complete, dramatic halt. Longer than a standard fermata: While a normal rounded fermata ( fermata) tells you to hold a note a bit longer, the square fermata  is a directive to stretch the pause significantly. It completely breaks the musical momentum for comedic or highly dramatic effect.

Theatrical Delivery: Because the piece is meant to be a showstopper, use that square fermata to milk the moment. Hold the note, let the piano ring out, and wait until the audience is practically holding their breath before slamming back into the lightning-fast polka tempo.

Now I know what I have to do !  Every day is a school day !

Cheers   R



Rich.
 

Re: Help required from a music maestro (please !)

Reply #6 –
So, no piano harmonics.  :D
I was also expecting something like the "prepared piano"...
Anyway I saw any kind of things withs harps, like this or my friend Adriano,
Not to talk about the "prepared" harp and other similar things...

Re: Help required from a music maestro (please !)

Reply #7 –
Hmm (as above), no?

A "square fermata", in my very humble opinion is a different beast: See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermata, where you can see one down near "Some modern composers ...". There, also the term square fermata appears. I am very certain it is used (only) for the oblong symbol (above the "hat" one). No composer or arranger would use a simple square for a fermata-like symbol.

And in that piece, at those places, ... well, no, you won't grind to a halt on each of those chords. And you would not beam eighth notes that virtually stop the movement.

That AI simply got it wrong .... says me. There must be some other explanation.

----

... ok, I also talked to Google's Gemini AI. Our dialog is in the attachment, and I have marked in red what appears, for me, to be the most sensible explanation.

H.M.

Re: Help required from a music maestro (please !)

Reply #8 –
And yet another answer !  And having watched and heard a performance, I am going with this one (even though it is not NoteWorthyable)

Because Ituarte wrote this piece to playfully mimic the idea of "destroying" or aggressively over-playing the instrument, standard notation wasn't enough. When you encounter the open square: The Technique: You are meant to strike a cluster of keys simultaneously using a flat palm, a fist, or the forearm, rather than playing individual, cleanly articulated finger notes.The Sound: It produces a chaotic, loud, and percussive "smash" sound effect that perfectly matches the comedic, high-energy bravura of a traditional Mexican salon piece.


Watch and listen :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dtPxItyPH0

Ha - great stuff

R.
Rich.

Re: Help required from a music maestro (please !)

Reply #9 –
Yes!! - of course.

(Small comeback - sorry: Had we known that the piece was in A-flat major, we might even have guessed this!)

H.M.

Re: Help required from a music maestro (please !)

Reply #10 –
Silently Depressed Keys (Acoustic/Resonance Markings):  that's what I meant!

Having seen/heard the (good) performance of that pianist, I understand all those seconds in the score.
But, in the end, that's little more than theater (or cinema, if you prefer :)) ). 
You could simply play those seconds the standard way and I doubt many will hear the difference.

Anyway, this is just another brick in the wall: once again, the AI was unable to explain me anything that I didn't know already. Even less what I was looking for.