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Topic: Problème avec Répétitions imbriquées  (Read 1980 times) previous topic - next topic

Problème avec Répétitions imbriquées

Bonjour,
Je ne trouve pas les bonnes commandes pour la fin de mon morceau.
J'ai fait
master repeat open
couplet 1
master repeat open
refrain 1
special ending 1
master repet close
special ending 2

jusque là tout va bien mais je dois poursuivre

1ere fin pour le refrain texte ligne 2
retour au début pour couplet 2
puis refrain ligne 1 et refrain ligne 2
2è fin spéciale pour terminer

J'ai fait :

à la fin du special ending 2
master repet close    -> il me renvoie au 2è master repeat open et non au 1er
Quel special ending mettre avant ce 2è master ending close
quel special ending mettre après le 2è master ending close pour terminer le morceau ?

En résumé j'ai besoin de
couplet 1
refrain 1
special ending 1
refrain 2
special ending 2
1ere fin
retour au début
couplet 2
refrain 1
special ending 1
refrain 2
special ending 2
final

Merci de votre aide
Annie






Re: Problème avec Répétitions imbriquées

Reply #1 –
Comme ça?
Always look on the bright side of life!

Re: Problème avec Répétitions imbriquées

Reply #2 –
Annie,

Malheureusement, je ne parle pas français - thus I answer in English.

As far as I know, there is no standard notation for such "nested repeats". Usually, one would therefore repeat the refrain part in its entirety - even if it's long - see "ChansondAnnie1.nwctxt" where I highlighted the repeated part in red.

Opagust's score does what you want with local repeats, it seems ... however, I suspect that the text sequence highlighted by NWC is not what you (and I) would expect.

In the attachment "ChansondAnnie2.nwctxt" is a variant of Opagust's method that uses a "D.C.". However, to get the sequence you want, you need a "Coda trick" to  force NWC into all the repeats once more.
Also here, the lyrics sequence highlighted by NWC is probably not what you want.

H.M.

Re: Problème avec Répétitions imbriquées

Reply #3 –
Thank you for your answers but they do not solve my problem.
In attachment my need

As I have different endings for the verses and for the choruses, I cannot use local local repeat or coda or segno.
The 2nd master repeat close refers to the 2nd master repeat open and not to the 1st.
How can I make the last special endings and the referral to the beginning?
Annie

Re: Problème avec Répétitions imbriquées

Reply #4 –
Thank you for your answers but they do not correspond to my needs.
In attachment my need

As I have different endings for the verses and for the choruses, I cannot use local repeat or coda or segno.
The 2nd master repeat close refers to the 2nd master repeat open and not to the 1st.
How can I make the last special endings and the referral to the beginning?
Annie

Re: Problème avec Répétitions imbriquées

Reply #5 –
Hi Annie -

just to be sure: Would the score in the attachment be ok regarding the flow (the sequence of the parts) - even though I "expanded" the inner nested repeats, and therefore one part of the refrain would have to be written twice in the score (which I indicated in red)?

H.M.

Re: Problème avec Répétitions imbriquées

Reply #6 –
oui c'est ce que j'ai fait en attendant mieux.
Mais on ne sait pas faire 2 master repeat imbriqués ?
Annie

Re: Problème avec Répétitions imbriquées

Reply #7 –
Hi Annie -

[I use DeepL.com for translation - to me, it seems to understand everything you say ;) ]

the simple answer is "no": Music notation has never known nested repeats ("répétitions imbriquées"). The nearest one gets to this is a combination of repeats and D.C.+Coda instructions - but if one uses this, the repeats are really kept simple and do not have special endings. And NWC is quite near to standard musical notation in this respect (even though you can trick it to much more complicated things - but this is more like creating intricate puzzles than writing music scores :) ).

Some wizard might find a way to get NWC to do it with some nested repeat trick - but this is not nice to the reader: If the repeated section is short, just write it out. If it is longer, leafing back 2 or more pages is even more complicated for the singer/player, so ... write it out.

As Elaine Gould writes on p.236 of "Behind Bars": "When instructions become complicated, a repeated passage is clearest written out." and on p.239 "Be aware that the layout in the example above [an example using Segno, Coda, and D.S.] may be difficult to negotiate without getting lost, especially if involves page-turns between the different sections. Rehearsal time may be used up rehearsing the geography of the piece rather than the music. In such cases, notate all or some of the repeated sections in full, so as not to risk jeopardizing a secure performance".

I therefore remain steadfast that you should not really do this ...

And in these times, where we have computers and programs like NWC which allow us to do copy/paste with just a few key clicks, there is really no reason to not "notate all of the repeated sections in full". It is the right way - I have tried it, with a real choir and quite a few pieces :).

If you want to know how you can do it in NWC, I have added a score "ChansondAnnie4.nwctxt" that does it. But this is totally contrary to standard music notation - no real musician will understand what to play with this score. It's just a trickery to get NWC to do something weird. And if you dont understand how NWC works internally, you will not easily find out why this works at all ...
And yes, you could make some of the endings and repeats invisible, and add others as purely "graphical" (or text) markers so that it looks more like you might think it could be written. But - see all of the above - this is not "how it is done"; it would just be your private hobby notation, which no-one else would understand.

H.M.
 

Re: Problème avec Répétitions imbriquées

Reply #8 –
Merci beaucoup pour ces explications claires.
Je garde donc ma partition avec la répétition du refrain.

Merci d'avoir plus le temps de me répondre
Annie