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Strange music typeface

I am in the process of transcribing a piece of music into Noteworthy Composer.  It is a Te Deum, by an obscure Victorian composer that was written round about 1849 for a particular event.

The score that I have is PRINTED in some strange music font which, however, does not actually look unpleasant at all.  It looks quaint. The minims ALL face to the left, even when they are on the middle line (B or D, depending on the clef) and above.  At the end, the music ends in a squiggle. There is also the word “sym:” at places where the voices rest for a bar or two – which I could not find out what it means.

I was wondering what sort of typeface it is and if there are music fonts that reproduce this typeface.  They would look nice if used on music from that era.

My grandfather was a drum major in the British army and he used to copy parts for the band (fo ha’penny per page, go figure!).  I still remember seeing some of the music that he had copied  using that convention for minims and also ending the lines with a squiggle.

An takes  on this?  (See attached)

Re: Strange music typeface

Reply #1 –
I think the first answer is easy: "sym:" is for "symilar" (or "simile", if you prefer Italian).
What it means here I don't know since I can't see the bars on the left.

I can't say anything about the "side" of the minims.

I saw the last squiggle in some scores.
I don't know for sure what it means but it makes me think of the harp indication "L.V." ("laissez vibrer", let it fade).

Re: Strange music typeface

Reply #2 –
I don't know what "sym:" means ...

The other symbols (left-facting halves, funny ending bar) are very typical for hand-written scores from the 1700s and first half of 1800s. Already the second hand-written score I randomly downloaded from IMSLP - see attached image - has these symbols (it is from a concerto for 2 violins from Karl Ditters von Dittersdorf): The quarters have their stems as today, but the halves have them always on the right side of the notehead; and after the double bar, there are these wiggles that are getting smaller and smaller ...

I think that the Musescore community has quite a few people who try to mimic such hand-writings with such fonts ... maybe someone "over there" can help you with such a font (but making int NWC-compatible will be some work ...).

// Edit:
I added another snippet, this time from the print from 1785(!) of a Dittersdorf sinfonia from 1781 with the same sort of symbols (end bar) and customs (stems for minims on always on the right). This is certainly an engraving - might your score also be one? Then, there is no "font" - only the stamps and punches of the - long deceased - engraver ...

H.M.

Re: Strange music typeface

Reply #3 –
Quote from: hmmueller –
I think that the Musescore community has quite a few people who try to mimic such hand-writings with such fonts ... maybe someone "over there" can help you with such a font (but making int NWC-compatible will be some work ...).
Yeah, maybe one of you "object creators" can help.  As NWC draws the stems they aren't in any fonts, only the noteheads themselves, so you would need to make the stem length zero and maybe use an object to draw the stem on the required side.

It doesn't seem that hard in my head, but then I'm no programmer so perhaps you should ignore me  ;)
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Strange music typeface

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
you would need to make the stem length zero and maybe use an object to draw the stem on the required side.
Or just use a layer for the stems:
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposer(2.751)
|Editor|ActiveStaff:2|CaretIndex:1|CaretPos:0
|PgSetup|DurationPadding:N
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Open (hidden)|WithNextStaff:Layer
|Clef|Type:Bass
|Key|Signature:C|Tonic:C
|TimeSig|Signature:3/4
|Note|Dur:Half,Slur|Pos:8|Opts:StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:7|Opts:StemLength=0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:6|Opts:StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5|Opts:StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:6|Opts:StemLength=0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half,Slur|Pos:7|Opts:StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:6|Opts:StemLength=0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half,Slur|Pos:6|Opts:StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5|Opts:StemLength=0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:9|Opts:StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:9|Opts:StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:9|Opts:StemLength=0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:8|Opts:StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:7|Opts:StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:6|Opts:StemLength=0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:7|Opts:StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:6|Opts:StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5|Opts:StemLength=0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half,Slur|Pos:5|Opts:StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:4|Opts:StemLength=0
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatClose
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff-2"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Open (hidden)
|Clef|Type:Bass
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Key|Signature:C|Tonic:C
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|TimeSig|Signature:3/4
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:8z|Opts:XNoteSpace=1,NoLegerLines,Muted
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:7z|Opts:NoLegerLines,Muted
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Bar
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:6z|Opts:NoLegerLines,Muted
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5z|Opts:NoLegerLines,Muted
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:6z|Opts:NoLegerLines,Muted
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Bar
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:7z|Opts:XNoteSpace=1,NoLegerLines,Muted
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:6z|Opts:NoLegerLines,Muted
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Bar
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:6z|Opts:XNoteSpace=1,NoLegerLines,Muted
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5z|Opts:NoLegerLines,Muted
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Bar
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:9z|Opts:NoLegerLines,Muted
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:9z|Opts:NoLegerLines,Muted
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:9z|Opts:NoLegerLines,Muted
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Bar
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:8z|Opts:NoLegerLines,Muted
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:7z|Opts:NoLegerLines,Muted
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:6z|Opts:NoLegerLines,Muted
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Bar
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:7z|Opts:NoLegerLines,Muted
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:6z|Opts:NoLegerLines,Muted
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5z|Opts:NoLegerLines,Muted
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Bar
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:5z|Opts:XNoteSpace=1,NoLegerLines,Muted
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:4z|Opts:NoLegerLines,Muted
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatClose
|Spacer|Width:0|Color:1
!NoteWorthyComposer-End
Registered user since 1996

Re: Strange music typeface

Reply #5 –
Using NWC2SwingDings as staff font, and a note spacing of 0.9 makes them a little more beautiful, in my humble opinion ... And the XText object can be used to create a simple "ornamented end bar":

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposer(2.751)
|Editor|ActiveStaff:1|CaretIndex:1|CaretPos:4
|SongInfo|Title:""|Author:"<Name>"|Lyricist:""|Copyright1:"Copyright © 2019 <Name>"|Copyright2:"All Rights Reserved"
|PgSetup|StaffSize:16|NtnTypeface:NWC2SwingDings|Zoom:8|TitlePage:Y|JustifyVertically:Y|PrintSystemSepMark:N|ExtendLastSystem:N|DurationPadding:N|PageNumbers:0|StaffLabels:None|BarNumbers:None|StartingBar:1
|Font|Style:StaffItalic|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:10|Bold:Y|Italic:Y|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:StaffBold|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:Y|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:StaffLyric|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:7.2|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageTitleText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:24|Bold:Y|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:12|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageSmallText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User1|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User2|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User3|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User4|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User5|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User6|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|PgMargins|Left:1.27|Top:1.27|Right:1.27|Bottom:1.27|Mirror:N
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff"|Group:"Standard"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Open (hidden)|Visible:Y|BoundaryTop:12|BoundaryBottom:12|Lines:5|WithNextStaff:Layer|Color:Default
|StaffProperties|Muted:N|Volume:127|StereoPan:64|Device:0|Channel:1
|StaffInstrument|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127
|Clef|Type:Bass
|Key|Signature:C|Tonic:C
|TimeSig|Signature:3/4
|Note|Dur:Half,Slur|Pos:8|Opts:StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:7|Opts:StemLength=0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:6|Opts:StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5|Opts:StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:6|Opts:StemLength=0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half,Slur|Pos:7|Opts:StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:6|Opts:StemLength=0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half,Slur|Pos:6|Opts:StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5|Opts:StemLength=0
|Bar|Style:Double
|User|XText.hmm|Pos:0|Text1:" %\}%"|Scale1:175|Text2:" "|Text3:"%\}%"|Text5:"%\}%  "|Offset1:-3|Scale3:150|Offset3:-2.5|Text4:" "|Scale5:125|Offset5:-2|Justification:"Right and wide"
|Bar|Style:Transparent
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff-2"|Group:"Standard"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Open (hidden)|Visible:Y|BoundaryTop:12|BoundaryBottom:12|Lines:5|Color:Default
|StaffProperties|Muted:N|Volume:127|StereoPan:64|Device:0|Channel:1
|StaffInstrument|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127
|Clef|Type:Bass
|Key|Signature:C|Tonic:C
|TimeSig|Signature:3/4
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:8z|Opts:XNoteSpace=0.9,NoLegerLines,Muted
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:7z|Opts:NoLegerLines,Muted
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:6z|Opts:NoLegerLines,Muted
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5z|Opts:NoLegerLines,Muted
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:6z|Opts:NoLegerLines,Muted
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:7z|Opts:XNoteSpace=0.9,NoLegerLines,Muted
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:6z|Opts:NoLegerLines,Muted
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:6z|Opts:XNoteSpace=0.9,NoLegerLines,Muted
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5z|Opts:NoLegerLines,Muted
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposer-End

H.M.

Re: Strange music typeface

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
Yeah, maybe one of you "object creators" can help.  As NWC draws the stems they aren't in any fonts, only the noteheads themselves, so you would need to make the stem length zero and maybe use an object to draw the stem on the required side.

It doesn't seem that hard in my head, but then I'm no programmer so perhaps you should ignore me  ;)
I noticed that in addition to the minim noteheads being on the "wrong" side of the stem, they were also significantly larger than the solid noteheads. The custom object approach I had considered was to change the noteheads to "blank space" and then let the object draw them in, as is done for CueHeads.ms.  This would also give the option to draw the minim noteheads a bit larger.


Re: Strange music typeface

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Mike Shawaluk –
<snip> they were also significantly larger than the solid noteheads. <snip>

FWIW the semibreve notehead in the system font is larger than the minim notehead - maybe the object can use the semibreve notehead rather than draw one.  That way if someone is using an alternative system font the notehead will still match.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Strange music typeface

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
FWIW the semibreve notehead in the system font is larger than the minim notehead - maybe the object can use the semibreve notehead rather than draw one.  That way if someone is using an alternative system font the notehead will still match.
Here's a poor-man's demo:
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.751,Single)
|Text|Text:""|Font:StaffSymbols|Pos:0|Justify:Right
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0z
|Text|Text:""|Font:StaffSymbols|Pos:1|Justify:Right
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:1z
|Text|Text:""|Font:StaffSymbols|Pos:-4|Justify:Right|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-4z
|Text|Text:""|Font:StaffSymbols|Pos:-3|Justify:Right|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-3z
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
 

Re: Strange music typeface

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Mike Shawaluk –
Here's a poor-man's demo:
It doesn't handle leger lines properly. The notestems still need to be shifted to the right or they won't align with other voices/parts in the score. A user object would have quite a bit to do to get this right. Custom stem lengths are needed in many cases, especially where there are lyrics. Since stem lengths are set to zero for visual reasons, a user object would need some other way to get that info.
Registered user since 1996