transpose treble clef key of to bass clef for a b flat trombone

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transpose treble clef key of to bass clef for a b flat trombone

2006-07-25 06:05 pm

I want to transpose piano music key of c to trombone (b flat) bass clef

Re: transpose treble clef key of to bass clef for a b flat trombone

Reply #1 – 2006-07-25 07:39 pm

The trombone is a non-transposing instrument - in other words, the note you read in the bass clef for the trombone is the same pitch as it would be when played on a piano.

If you are certain you want to transpose a part written for a C instrument to allow it to be played by someone using a transposing instrument pitched in Bb, then use Tools/Transpose/+2 semitones.

To check the transposition is correct, make sure your staff had a key signature before the transpostion. After the transposition it should have 2 less flats or 2 more sharps.

Re: transpose treble clef key of to bass clef for a b flat trombone

Reply #2 – 2006-07-25 10:35 pm

Re: transpose treble clef key of to bass clef for a b flat trombone

Reply #3 – 2006-07-25 11:36 pm

I missed the possibilty Stomberg was wanting to write a treble clef part in the bass clef to be played by a trombonist.

Having said that, Fitzclan's method places the music two octaves too low (C in the third space of the treble clef is two octaves higher than C in the second space of the bass clef).

This is OK as long as the writer knows this and it doesn't interfere with the harmony. Not only can it be OK, it may be necessary if the original treble clef part goes higher than the practical range of the trombone, which Nestico's Complete Arranger suggests is around Bb above middle C.

Re: transpose treble clef key of to bass clef for a b flat trombone

Reply #4 – 2006-07-26 03:22 am

Re: transpose treble clef key of to bass clef for a b flat trombone

Reply #5 – 2006-07-26 07:25 am

I don't really read tenor clef, but if the top whole note in your example is a D that would normally be found on the 4th line of the treble clef, your source and mine are pretty close together. Nestico shows this as the practical range:

[shadow=red,left]!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Bass
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:-5
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:b12
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End[/shadow]

and this as possible:

[shadow=red,left]!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Bass
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:-6
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:13
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End[/shadow]

with a mark indicating the instrument can go higher.

Like you, I don't play trombone nor write for it, although I have copied out many a trombone part for my Ellington rehearsal band. While I don't know if it's customary to use tenor clef in trombone orchestral parts, I don't think it is often found, at least in contemporary concert or big band music. I wouldn't be surprised to see it used in military band music such as the transcribed tradtional old warhorses.

In some of our Essentially Ellington charts, the transcribed high tenor solos are in treble clef (Lawrence Brown was a high note specialist), and the parts can start in one clef and switch to the other as necessary, to avoid leger lines. Since my trombonists don't seem to mind counting leger lines, I assume leger lines are not uncommon in the trombone world, but that's only an assumption on my part and I don't blame you for wanting to avoid them.

Re: transpose treble clef key of to bass clef for a b flat trombone

Reply #6 – 2011-04-06 08:33 pm

I play trombone, and there's a whole lot of us who rue the day they invented tenor clef, lol. Personally, I'd much rather see it scored an octave lower with an "8va" notation showing it's meant to be played an octave higher.

Re: transpose treble clef key of to bass clef for a b flat trombone

Reply #7 – 2011-04-06 09:18 pm

Quote from: rudulfo – 2011-04-06 08:33 pm

I play trombone, and there's a whole lot of us who rue the day they invented tenor clef, lol. Personally, I'd much rather see it scored an octave lower with an "8va" notation showing it's meant to be played an octave higher.

I think it's more about exposure. I have no desire to boast though I know it's going to sound like I am: I too play 'bone, however I first learned in a British tradition brass band where you play transposed treble clef - that's almost the same as tenor, just with 2 extra sharps... It was nearly 30 years before I was exposed to bass clef. And what about fake books? They're nearly always concert treble (yes, I know you can buy C, Bb, Eb and bass clef books but usually you only see concert treble).

It really didn't take much effort and these days I play transposed treble, concert treble, concert tenor and concert bass fluently. Very occasionally I forget what clef I'm in and make some interesting sounds, but mostly it's no problem. The situation I find most troublesome is clef changes in the middle of a part - I'd prefer to not have this, but again it's exposure. If the things I was playing had these changes more often I'd get used to it and the problem would go away.

I will say that the way I learned makes for some interesting things going on in my head. Take a second space "C" (bass clef). Because of the way I learned that 6th position "C" is really a "D" for me, in the same way a 1st position "Bb" is "C" and a 4th position "G" is really an "A" in my book. Better still, a 4th position "B" is actually a C# to me...

My advice is: "Don't fight it, instead 'go with the flow' and you will be surprised how much easier it becomes."

BTW, I regularly play in situations where I encounter Transposed Treble (a brass band) which is almost the same as Concert Tenor, Concert Treble (Jazz "real books" and some of the stuff I play at church) and Concert Bass (mostly big band charts and musicals {where I also sometimes see Concert Tenor} and anything where I've written a part for church).

And just to make it interesting, occasionally I've written something for church in bass clef and decided it works better on my trumpet - I don't bother rewriting it, I just play my trumpet from the bass clef part... Or sometimes it's the other way around - a trumpet part I've written might work better on my 'bone or Eupho - I don't bother with a rewrite - just play it. A little effort and it becomes easy.

Again, don't fight it, embrace it.

Re: transpose treble clef key of to bass clef for a b flat trombone

Reply #8 – 2011-04-07 01:24 am

Amen, Lawrie. It's good to remember that viola players regularly switch back and forth between alto and treble clefs, and cellists switch between bass and treble, with the occasional tenor thrown in for good measure. And, of course, pianists read two clefs simultaneously almost all of the time. Like everything else, it's just a matter of practice. (Lost concertgoer: Could you please tell me how to get to Carnegie Hall? Passing musician: Practice, man - practice.)

And by the way - I doubt if the original poster is paying attention. Check the date....