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Topic: Midi editor (Read 21072 times) previous topic - next topic

Midi editor

can anyone recommend a simple midi editor where I can cut and paste and fade in and out exerpts of carols in midi format to make a backing track? I can do it fine in wave or mp3 but the file sizes end up too big.

Re: Midi editor

Reply #1 –
Audacity! Definitely Audacity! Simply import the MIDI.
Here's a link:Audacity!!!
Supported by The Brotherhood of Pandas

Re: Midi editor

Reply #2 –
Thanks, but my Audacity, which is the latest, clearly states "Audacity does not play or edit Midi". Am I reading something wrong?

Re: Midi editor

Reply #3 –
G'day Archive,

Quote from: Archive –
Audacity! Definitely Audacity! Simply import the MIDI.
Here's a link:Audacity!!!

Umm, how?

My copy of Audacity states in the help:

MIDI Track
Audacity currently supports displaying MIDI files if you import them using Import MIDI from the Project menu.

Audacity does not support playing, recording, or editing MIDI files. It does not even support saving MIDI Tracks in a project file.

The current functionality is useful to only a small group of people who are studying algorithms that relate MIDI data to audio data and simply wish to see the visual representation of the MIDI data and how it lines up with the audio data.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Midi editor

Reply #4 –
Don't remember the web site offhand, but try searching for a pretty good freeware called Anvil Studio.  It should do what you are trying to accomplish.  I would import each carol as a separate track and cut and paste the sections you wish to use into a separate new track for each one.  This will make your fade ins and fade outs easier than if they were all pasted into the same new track, and will also allow you to fade the next carol in while the previous carol is still fading out, a neat effect if that is what you have in mind.  There are probably other freeware sequencers out there, N-Track Studio Sequencer comes to mind as one I have played with only a little.  Good luck!

Re: Midi editor

Reply #5 –
One more thing comes to mind.  If your carols are themselves multi-instrument tracks, try creating the sequence as MIDI Type 2, which is little used.  In Type 2 each channel is a song in itself, up to 16 (0f course!) different songs.  Not many sequencers handle this type, so it may not be an option.

Re: Midi editor

Reply #6 –
Er...
I use a recording device to play record the MIDI, than edit it on Audacity.
I guess that's a bit complicated, though...
Supported by The Brotherhood of Pandas

Re: Midi editor

Reply #7 –
Archive, you seem to be using Audacity to produce an audio file, which has its uses.  Llucy's question referred to editing within the MIDI format, which is not an audio format but a set of instructions to keyboards, synths, computers, etc. for them to produce sound, much like a player piano roll is not an audio recording, but a set of instructions punched into a paper roll to play an actual physical piano.  She may or may not choose to turn that edited MIDI file into an audio file, but the original question seemed to refer to editing within MIDI, hence our seeming lack of enthusiasm for Audacity.  I use Audacity frequently myself and I find it's a great program for editing audio.

Re: Midi editor

Reply #8 –
Oh. Oops. Sorry about that.
Supported by The Brotherhood of Pandas

Re: Midi editor

Reply #9 –
G'day Archive,
it's cool mate.  You'll find we can be a bit pedantic at times, but we never mean to offend.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Midi editor

Reply #10 –
Another way this could be done is if the midi was imported into NWC and there was a "Global" or "System" tool in NWC where say the required 'cut' or 'copy' section was selected in the the top staff, then activating the "System", it dropped the highlighted portion through all the staves and then the whole section moved. Not sure if a tool to do this could be made. Something similar can be done in 'Sibelius', but there are still bugs.

Re: Midi editor

Reply #11 –
Is there a way to identify what is in a midi file that didn't/can't get converted in a NWC file?  I am referring specifically to what would be pitch bends making the note sound wrong when a scoop up (or down) to the "real" note is left out. "I'll be [glow=red,2,300]gone[/glow] five hundred miles" etc. messes up not only the melody line but a number of supporting notes in other staves.

A midi editor someone suggested a few years ago was lost when my then computer crashed.  Can anyone suggest one that gets to the bits and bytes level when needed?  TIA
Since 1998

Re: Midi editor

Reply #12 –
I usually use mf2t for this: http://archive.cs.uu.nl/pub/MIDI/PROGRAMS/MSDOS/mf2t.zip

The output can be a bit verbose. You need a good text (or programming) editor.
I've found a bug in mf2t. If there are TimeSig changes, the -b option doesn't work.
Not what you asked for, but learning how to use a sequencer can take days.

One trick I've used is to edit the output from mf2t so that the events that NoteWorthy doesn't import that you are interested in show up as lyrics. NWC2 will then import these on a separate staff that synchs with the original staff.
For example, if you export this:
Quote
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:F#
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|PerformanceStyle|Style:Tenuto|Pos:11
|MPC|Controller:pitch|Style:Absolute|TimeRes:Thirtysecond|SweepRes:32|Pt1:0,16383|Pt2:1,8192|Pt3:1,16383|Pt4:1,4096|Pos:7
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:3
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
mf2t will yield something like this:
Quote from: mf2t output
MFile 1 2 192
MTrk
0 Meta Text "Generated by NoteWorthy Composer"
0 KeySig 1 major
0 TimeSig 4/4 24 8
0 Meta TrkEnd
TrkEnd
MTrk
0 Meta 0x21 00
0 Meta TrkName "Staff"
0 Pb ch=1 v=16383
0 On ch=1 n=76 v=110
24 Pb ch=1 v=8192
48 Pb ch=1 v=16383
72 Pb ch=1 v=4096
768 On ch=1 n=76 v=0
768 Meta TrkEnd
TrkEnd
If you then search for: " Pb ch=1 v=" and replace it with: " Meta Lyric "",
and add "\n"" to the end of each replacement line, the relevent Mtrk will look like:
Quote
MTrk
0 Meta 0x21 00
0 Meta TrkName "Staff"
0 Meta Lyric "16383\n"
0 On ch=1 n=76 v=110
24 Meta Lyric "8192\n"
48 Meta Lyric "16383\n"
72 Meta Lyric "4096\n"
768 On ch=1 n=76 v=0
768 Meta TrkEnd
TrkEnd
This will import as something like the attached graphic.

If you could post a link to the file (or PM me), I might be of more help.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Midi editor

Reply #13 –
I found it here.mid and thus far have this.nwc.  The problem first occurs in the pickup to m. 49.  I plan to move all the melody lines to one staff with instrument changes and then put the lyrics in.

Thanks for looking into this.  I've got a good editor and have downloaded the program you suggested.  Hopefully I'll be better prepared it something like this pops up again.

Once again, TIA
Since 1998

Re: Midi editor

Reply #14 –
No pitch bends in this MIDI.
Quote from: Warren Porter –
The problem first occurs in the pickup to m. 49.
Pickup to m. 49 (and thruout 49): F's need to be natural, not sharp. Channel 9 & 15
Same problem at pickup to 99 and 103.

I wish all MIDI imports were this clean.
BTW, most of the A#'s need to be Bb.

If you process the MIDI with mf2t, the header and master track look like this:
Quote
MFile 1 17 480
MTrk
0 SysEx f0 41 10 42 12 40 00 7f 00 41 f7
0 SMPTE 96 0 0 0 0
0 Tempo 413793
0 TimeSig 4/4 24 8
0 KeySig 0 major
0 Meta TrkEnd
TrkEnd
Change to this:
Quote
MFile 1 17 480
MTrk
0 Tempo 413793
0 TimeSig 2/2 24 8
0 KeySig 1 major
0 Meta TrkEnd
TrkEnd
and process with t2mf. Import that into NWC2 with:
  • Detect Instrument Changes (there are some)
  • Note Resolution: Thirtysecond Note
  • Rest Resolution: Quarter Rest
Export it to nwctxt. Global Search & Replace:
  • "Wide:Y" -> "Wide:N"
  • "Signature:2/2" -> "Signature:AllaBreve"

If there are still too many ties for your liking, use:
Quote
0 TimeSig 1/1 24 8
and adjust your Search & Replace accordingly.

No easy way to change all those A#'s to Bb's  :(
NWC2 doesn't send enough info to make a User Tool feasible.

There are a few rest patterns to fix so that they make sense notationally. This could be done with a proper User Tool. I just don't do enough of this to justify writing one.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Midi editor

Reply #15 –
You have done quite a bit with it--I am definitely saving a copy of this thread.

Once again, many thanks.
Since 1998

Re: Midi editor

Reply #16 –
I have revisited a file I looked at quite a while ago. House3.nwc came from house2.mid after running the text created from MF2T after stripping the original lyrics and replacing them with lyrics created from "Pb" commands.  The midi file sounds good in a karaoke program but not after import to NWC.

Is there a method of creating the MPC pitch commands in NWC?  The Pb commands were all in channel 4.

Thanks in advance.
Since 1998

Re: Midi editor

Reply #17 –
To insert pitch bend commands into nwc, you need to use the "insert Multi Point Controller" command  (Letter L) and then select pitch bend in the controller box.

You can 'bend" across 2 tones. You will probably need to use linear sweep to get a smooth bend.

If you need to bend across more than two tones, you will need to use a work around - The most famous being the Nachbaur method.
If you want anexample of this, have a look at the Paganini Caprice no 24 or Popper's "Dance of the Elves" that I put on the Scripto.


 
Rich.

Re: Midi editor

Reply #18 –
I've used the linear sweep feature of the MPC command on many occasions.  What I am hoping for is a way to create the appropriate MPC directly from a midi file.  If I were to program this I would probably create the appropriate time signatures and empty measures before creating a "demo" note and creating the MPC, all in nwctxt.  That nwctxt would be in an added staff to an unmodified NWC file created from the same midi file and then the MPC's could be copied to the appropriate staff.

To do all that would require getting a compiler installed on this PC, learning the whole format of midi files and how to read them, studying C or C++ (again!), and getting to work.  People like Rick G (only one that comes to mind right now) are already on top of the necessary programming skills and are familiar with MIDI and NWC.

Thanks, I'll definitely check out Paganini and Popper, I've had Nachbaur's slide on my PC for a long time.

P.S. The other one that comes to mind is Eric.
Since 1998

Re: Midi editor

Reply #19 –
You don't need a compiler to decode MIDI files. I've written a decoder in VBScript that has worked on all the hundreds of MIDI files that I have.

But:
  • NWC2 import takes too many liberties with durations
  • NWC2 allows options that produce vastly differing output
  • MPC's don't have enough resolution (PPQN resolution is needed)
Trying to map a MIDI event to the corresponding NWC2 object is a gargantuan task.

It may be easier to write a MIDI to nwctxt converter that incorporates events that NWC2 supports in nwctxt, but ignores during import. This would be a large task, but much more reliable than trying to merge new MIDI events into an nwctxt file generated by NWC2 from a MIDI import.

I'll be staying with projects that I can expect to complete in my lifetime.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Midi editor

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
Trying to map a MIDI event to the corresponding NWC2 object is a gargantuan task.

It may be easier to write a MIDI to nwctxt converter that incorporates events that NWC2 supports in nwctxt, but ignores during import. This would be a large task, but much more reliable than trying to merge new MIDI events into an nwctxt file generated by NWC2 from a MIDI import.

I'll be staying with projects that I can expect to complete in my lifetime.
I had not been working as a programmer very long when someone asked for a "small change" and added "All's ya gotta do is change a header card." If it were only that simple!

At any rate, thanks for looking into it.
Since 1998