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Topic: crescendo/decrescendo on notes already playing (Read 8163 times) previous topic - next topic

crescendo/decrescendo on notes already playing

I know already how to set crescendo/decrescendo on notes already playing. The only problem is, the sound doesn't swell/soften to the degree I want by the time the note is finished.

Let's say I want a whole note to start pp and end ff. By the time the note is finished playing, it swelled to a certain volume-- but definitely not ff.

How does one work this out?

Jaycee c",)

Re: crescendo/decrescendo on notes already playing

Reply #1 –
   This does not strictly answer your question ... but I think it may solve your problem.

   Dynamic variations such as "crescendo" usually only work from note to note, rather than during a note, unless in the "Insert Dynamics" box you choose suitably to overwrite either or both of the velocity and volume for both the starting and the ending dynamic (remember that "velocity" corresponds to how hard you hit the note, while "volume" is how loud it sounds).  Without doing this, while a crescendo from pp to ff of a run of, say, quavers may sound fine, the same crescendo of, say, a semibrieve, or of two tied minims, will have no apparent effect at all - at least, not until the subsequent note!  The overwrite, however, will make the crescendo work during the notes as well as between them.

   Another way to change dynamics during notes is to use the Multipoint Controller - either the Volume or the Expression bit (I always use the former, but others swear by the latter).  This gives quite good control of both single notes and runs of notes.

   MusicJohn, 13/Oct/09

Re: crescendo/decrescendo on notes already playing

Reply #2 –
Quote from: jeremygui –
Let's say I want a whole note to start pp and end ff. By the time the note is finished playing, it swelled to a certain volume-- but definitely not ff.
If you have a normal whole note, it only sounds for about 3 beats, so it is off before the volume controller reaches ff.

Quote from: jeremygui –
How does one work this out?
I attached a chart durations rg01.nwc that shows the time between note on and note off in PPQN's and as a percent of the total. Look up the note, divide the top number by 12, and you will have the number of 64th notes that the note is actually on. Use that in your MPC.
Registered user since 1996

Re: crescendo/decrescendo on notes already playing

Reply #3 –
Attached is a test in which volume is used in all dynamics.  In the Thais Meditation, all dynamics in the violin part were done this way.
Since 1998

Re: crescendo/decrescendo on notes already playing

Reply #4 –
I also prefer to use volume MPCs for single-note swells and fades, but there are hazards. The volume MPC controls the staff volume, not the dynamic volume. That means you have to reset the staff volume back to normal after you've used a volume MPC. It also means that you have to calculate the volume change as the difference between the two dynamics you are crescendoing or decrescendoing between, and then apply that difference to the staff volume. And you can't swell above 127, so for a swell you have to drop the staff volume by the difference between the softer and louder dynamics, and simultaneously raise the softer dynamic's velocity by the same amount.

For example, if you want to swell from pp (which has a velocity of 30) to mp (velocity 60), you must:
  • use the dynamics property box of the pp dynamic to set the channel volume to 97 and the custom note velocity to 60;
  • nsert a linear sweep volume MPC to raise the channel volume from 97 to 127 over the length of the crescendo; and,
  • insert an mp dynamic at the end of the crescendo, with both the channel volume and custom note velocity boxes left unchecked (so that the default values are used).

If you want to fade from mp to pp, the process is essentially reversed:
  • insert an mp dynamic with both volume and velocity boxes left unchecked,
  • insert a linear sweep volume MPC to lower the channel volume from 127 to 97 over the course of the decrescendo; and,
  • insert a pp dynamic with the channel volume changed back to 127 (make sure the custom velocity setting is set to the default - you can normally do this by simply leaving that checkbox blank).

Hope this helps -

Bill

Re: crescendo/decrescendo on notes already playing

Reply #5 –
Which is why I always use Expression for all dynamics, swells and fades on held notes.
Leave Volume for balance between staves. (Track volume).
Use Velocity for accents.

The three operators together determine the output dynamic.
A non-linear product of Vol x Expr x Vel.

Re: crescendo/decrescendo on notes already playing

Reply #6 –
Quote from: jeremygui –
I know already how to set crescendo/decrescendo on notes already playing.
It seems that several folks don't believe you. They may be right but I tend to take things at face value.
Registered user since 1996

Re: crescendo/decrescendo on notes already playing

Reply #7 –
   I don't think it's that we don't believe him, Rick, more like we read but failed to take in the point you think he was making (and I now reckon you were right). 

   And then .. I have to say that when I play a "normal" whole note (a semibrieve) - that is, one that is neither legato/tenuto or staccato (or slurred or otherwise altered) - from pp to ff using the Multipoint Controller (over the full note time period) the total dynamic range seems to be there, despite the tiny gap between the end of the note and the next note.  Well, effectively.  But I readily admit that my ears are pretty rotten.

   Perhaps jeremygui/Jaycee c",) will now tell us what he thinks about our suggestions?

   MusicJohn, 13/Oct/09

 

Re: crescendo/decrescendo on notes already playing

Reply #8 –
Rick, can you tell from jeremygui's original post whether he's using a volume MPC or an expression MPC - or any MPC at all? I sure can't. That's why I thought it prudent to start at the beginning.

Cheers,

Bill