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Topic: Long Lyric Dashes (Read 6824 times) previous topic - next topic

Long Lyric Dashes

In a lyric how can I create a syllable with a long dash extension which extends across a bar line without a break.? This is very commonly needed with tied notes across a bar line in vocal/keyboard music. It's easy enough to do it with a break at the bar line using a separate syllable of 'en' or 'em' dashes and setting the tied note lyric syllable to 'always'.

The unbroken dash is so common in commercialy printed music that I wonder if I've missed something.

I thought it might be possible (but messy) using using Insert - Text but NWC doesn't recognise these characters in  text although it does in lyrics - odd !!

Bruce Miles

Re: Long Lyric Dashes

Reply #1 –
Quote from: Bruce Miles –
The unbroken dash is so common in commercialy printed music that I wonder if I've missed something.
You haven't missed anything, NWC2 has no built-in support.

I use text underscores. Usually one to position the start and another to position the end. If you just use one text object, you will need to re-edit its length if you make changes that cause the measures to break differently. I have also found that using a single text object does not give fine enough control of the endpoint.

An example: Tu ad liberandum, a fairly complex piece of music. Others may add simpler examples.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Long Lyric Dashes

Reply #2 –
Thanks, Rick, for your reply. The example is something of a challenge to understand completely. I shall study it with great interest.

Re: Long Lyric Dashes

Reply #3 –
Essentially, use two strings of text consisting just of underscore marks, i.e., ________. 

Insert one just to the left of the note you want the line to start at, and make it left justified, aligned "At next note/bar."

Insert the second one at the last note or bar line you want the line to get to.  Again, set it to "At next note/bar" but this time, right justify it.    

You just adjust the vertical aligment so they line up and they should be long enough to overlap a bit.  This allows some margin of error when it comes time to print.  You can pad them a little with spaces inside the text string, if you need to, and you can lengthen or shorten them by adding or reducing the number of _ entries. 

Re: Long Lyric Dashes

Reply #4 –
David's suggestion also works for extended dotted and wavy lines.

Carl Bangs
fenwickparva.com

Where all the music was produced with Noteworthy
Carl Bangs
Fenwick Parva Press
Registered user since 1995

Re: Long Lyric Dashes

Reply #5 –
Thanks for these suggestions.

After a struggle I had just managed to work out a similar text solution but using 'en' (short) and/or 'em' (long) dashes. These characters are not on the keyboard but are accessed with keystrokes Alt-0150 and Alt-0151 respectively. They give a professional-looking centre-height continuous dash which can be closely controlled for length and, with added spaces fore and aft, for position.

Choir oo's and ah's often extend over many bars and it seems a good idea to use one text entry for each bar, centre justified, and (when needed) to cover a whole bar with some extra to give an overlap. Some adjustment will be required to allow for changed bar lengths as line breaks change with layout changes. A text insert per bar will minimise the fiddling about.

Not all fonts have these dash characters but the more common ones (Arial, Times New Roman, Courier New) do. But they don't display corectly in the Notation Properties Text Expression box.

IMHO underscores always look a bit odd and I think these dashes are much better.

Any comments. ? Perhaps it's worth a 'Tip and Trick' entry.

Re: Long Lyric Dashes

Reply #6 –
Word extenders are supposed to be on the baseline, not the center-line. I've used Alt+0150, Alt+151, underscore. With the Symbol font, the back-tick and Alt+0190 can also be used.

By the time I get to adding word extenders, I've usually already put hard system breaks in. I find it easier just to use 2 entries and make them as long as needed.

NWC2's lyric handling leaves much room for improvement.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Long Lyric Dashes

Reply #7 –
Yes. Rick, you are quite right - I stand corrected. Word extenders should be on the base line according to the reference books.
Most commercially published vocal music appears to use a line which sits just above the baseline though a significant number do use a centre line. The underscore sits just below the baseline.
This is rather nit-picking, but I shall probably use the centre line extender for personal preference.

Re: Long Lyric Dashes

Reply #8 –
For interest, some years ago I worked for a while on an update to my *Dings suites *Text fonts to include lines for word extenders that could be placed in the lyric itself.

In the end I gave up.  I simply couldn't get a satisfactory result and decided that it would be best addressed programatically by NWC.

If you happen to use the SwingDings suite and want to investigate what I did, send me a PM and I'll see if I can dig up the test file for you.  Just remember that I wasn't particularly happy with the results.

Rick may remember the episode...
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Long Lyric Dashes

Reply #9 –
This debate also has a direct relationship to 8va, Trill (and the like) markings.

This also would be best addressed programatically by NWC at the same time perhaps.

Rich.

Re: Long Lyric Dashes

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Bruce Miles –
The underscore sits just below the baseline.
It is usually quite a bit below the baseline. How these "horizontal line characters" position themselves with respect to other characters in the text object is irrelevant to their use as word extenders, since the only other characters in the text are spaces.
Registered user since 1996
 

Re: Long Lyric Dashes

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
... I worked for a while on [...] fonts to include lines for word extenders that could be placed in the lyric itself. [...] I simply couldn't get a satisfactory result [...] Rick may remember the episode
I do indeed. The problem is that NWC2 will not allow lyric text to extend past a barline. Except for the last bar in a system, where the lyric cannot extend into the right margin, this is typographically incorrect.

IMO, shifting notes to accommodate lyrics should be the last resort but, for NWC2, it is the first.

Quote from: Richard Woodroffe –
This debate also has a direct relationship to 8va, Trill (and the like) markings.
Our workarounds may have a direct relationship to 8va, Trill (and the like) but, fixing lyric placement and direct support for word extenders is a separate issue.
Registered user since 1996